AH Challenge: a French-Dutch personal union

I have seen a lot of interesting personal unions with the Netherlands on this site, including the famous Anglo-Dutch union, German-Dutch personal union and even a Japanese-Dutch personal union in the map thread (which may be the coolest one so far), but I can't remember ever seeing a personal union between France and the Netherlands. Because of that I present to you this challenge.
Some arbitrary rules:
The POD must be after 1543
The Netherlands and France must be equal partners, or at least as equal as the English/Scottish personal union
The Netherlands must exist at least out of current day Netherlands (with the possible exception of the province of Limburg), so no French rhineborder
The Netherlands can be larger if you wish it to be, so Flanders or even Wallonia can be part of it

So anyone interested in it?
 
I have seen a lot of interesting personal unions with the Netherlands on this site, including the famous Anglo-Dutch union, German-Dutch personal union and even a Japanese-Dutch personal union in the map thread (which may be the coolest one so far), but I can't remember ever seeing a personal union between France and the Netherlands. Because of that I present to you this challenge.
Some arbitrary rules:
The POD must be after 1543
The Netherlands and France must be equal partners, or at least as equal as the English/Scottish personal union
The Netherlands must exist at least out of current day Netherlands (with the possible exception of the province of Limburg), so no French rhineborder
The Netherlands can be larger if you wish it to be, so Flanders or even Wallonia can be part of it

So anyone interested in it?

Well, the Dutch did King Henry III of France to be their ruler in 1584, after the assasination of William the Silent...

Getting Henry to agree is one thing... (Basically just giving the finger to Spain, and annexing the Franche-Comté too in the process, most likely...)
Getting him to not just annex the whole lot to France is another...
 

HJ Tulp

Donor
We did invite the Duke of Anjou to be our Monarch. Ofcourse he cocked up but that's not pre-determined.
 
I don't see how it would be an equal union. Population-wise, area-wise, army-wise, it all goes against the Dutch.
 
Maybe I should clarify what I meant with equal. I do not mean equal in importance or influence, but equal as in independent and the Netherlands should not considered to be part of France.
 
Maybe I should clarify what I meant with equal. I do not mean equal in importance or influence, but equal as in independent and the Netherlands should not considered to be part of France.

Again - what is stopping the King of France (whoever that is at the time) from just annexing the Netherlands outright?

After all, the kings of France wanted one thing above all else - More France. More damn it!!!!!
 
Again - what is stopping the King of France (whoever that is at the time) from just annexing the Netherlands outright?

After all, the kings of France wanted one thing above all else - More France. More damn it!!!!!

Well, it is a challenge after all. Find a way. Make the Netherlands stronger, France weaker, invent some reason why the French don't want to annex it (the king is originaly Dutch and just don't want it, for example), maybe some foreign power prevents it, etc.
 
Well, it is a challenge after all. Find a way. Make the Netherlands stronger, France weaker, invent some reason why the French don't want to annex it (the king is originaly Dutch and just don't want it, for example), maybe some foreign power prevents it, etc.

Maybe the treaty stippulates that the Netherlands has to be independent, but in personal-union...

So, it is de jure intependent, but not necessarily de facto independent...

Would that fit your criteria? :confused:

(Maybe France annexes the French-speaking bits of the Burgundinian inheritance, and lets the Netherlands have all the Dutch-speaking bits...)
 
Again - what is stopping the King of France (whoever that is at the time) from just annexing the Netherlands outright?

After all, the kings of France wanted one thing above all else - More France. More damn it!!!!!

What's stopping him is that he'd be at war with the same people the Spanish failed to subdue.

You're backprojecting Louis XIV's kingdom. In the 16th century the French would only be interested in annexing Artois and Flanders from the Netherlands; they'd see it as a reconquest since these regions were under French suzerainty (but Habsburg rule) until the 1529 Treaty of Cambrai (the so-called Peace of the Ladies, though given the complicated history of the Italian Wars this date is just a matter of opinion). Of course they wouldn't mind annexing the entire Netherlands, but a personal union is a pretty sweet deal for them and they'd be fools to screw it up. I expect they'd even leave Artois and Flanders in peace.

(Maybe France annexes the French-speaking bits of the Burgundinian inheritance, and lets the Netherlands have all the Dutch-speaking bits...)

An ethnic division? They didn't think that way back then. The local nobility spoke French anyway.
 
What's stopping him is that he'd be at war with the same people the Spanish failed to subdue.

You're backprojecting Louis XIV's kingdom. In the 16th century the French would only be interested in annexing Artois and Flanders from the Netherlands; they'd see it as a reconquest since these regions were under French suzerainty (but Habsburg rule) until the 1529 Treaty of Cambrai (the so-called Peace of the Ladies, though given the complicated history of the Italian Wars this date is just a matter of opinion). Of course they wouldn't mind annexing the entire Netherlands, but a personal union is a pretty sweet deal for them and they'd be fools to screw it up. I expect they'd even leave Artois and Flanders in peace.

An ethnic division? They didn't think that way back then. The local nobility spoke French anyway.

Best post so far.
The Dutch showed Spain the door at the height of there power... Hell yeah
 
It may be completely wrong, but could the Dutch have, at some point, invited Henry of Navarre to be their ruler, as a fellow Protestant? Later, if he still wins the war for the French throne then he could be the ruler of both countries.
 
It may be completely wrong, but could the Dutch have, at some point, invited Henry of Navarre to be their ruler, as a fellow Protestant? Later, if he still wins the war for the French throne then he could be the ruler of both countries.

IIRC they invited Phillip of Anjou; maybe he's less of an ass, and somehow, mumble mumble?
 
IIRC they invited Phillip of Anjou; maybe he's less of an ass, and somehow, mumble mumble?

Such POD would have an interesting effect on the French Succession also. Henry IV might have remained only king of Navarre then.

Maybe the key to avoid an annexation to France would be to keep the Spanish Netherlands. Then both France and the rest of Netherlands would be under personal union, but separated by foreign territory.
 
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