AH Challenge: a Dutch elector

I was bored and decided to think of a challange. This is the result of my boredom:
Make the Dutch government an elector of the HRE.
To make it harder the POD must be after the treaty of Westphalia, which means that the Netherlands has already left the HRE.
Also the electorate must be recognisable Dutch. By that I mean you can't have Brandenburg conquer the Netherlands, because than it would still be Brandenburgians (who controls the Netherlands) who are the electors and not the Dutch.

Anyone interested in the challenge?
 
The House of Orange marries into the Palatine Electors? Falls off horses, impotency, and sick infants lead to the Prince of Orange and the Elector Palatine being the same man?
 
damn wrong pod cause the count of Holland got the title of holy roman emperor but he got killed during a fight with Frisians in the backwater of the empire wich showed how low the prestige of the title was.
 
The Palatinate is the way to go, that whole area is fairly Dutch until quite recently really.
 

Susano

Banned
The Palatinate is the way to go, that whole area is fairly Dutch until quite recently really.
Err... no. You might have the wrong German region in mind.

Now, if really the Republic of the Seven Provinces is one of the electors, then it must be part of the HREGN. This can happen after Westphalia, though I guess there would have to be a good reason for the Netherlands rejoining the HRE...

On the other hand, the Nassau-Oranje Stadholders were also Counts and later Princes of Nassau inside the HREGN. Of course, that was a very backwater territory divided into countless branches, and divided always further as Nassau didnt have primogeniture, so that is even less likely, IMO.
 
Err... no. You might have the wrong German region in mind.
Maybe a bit far south yeah...Darn, I was thinking of Aachen and co. area.
I must be getting a bit mixed up with my current project.

I guess it could migrate north...Slowly.
 
Austria or Spain conquers the Netherlands during a war they are both involved in, and puts a puppet Hapsburg on a newly created Dutch Kingdom throne, eventually becomes an elector after the decline of Colonge in the 18th century.
 

Thande

Donor
The HRE is restored at the Congress of Vienna (or afterwards) with its 1789 borders. Because the United Kingdom of the Netherlands includes the former Austrian Netherlands, this means the Dutch King has representation in the Reichstag. Get rid of the Belgian Revolution somehow and have the UKN be a key ally for Austria in the alt-wars of unification, defeating Prussia. The UKN is rewarded with a full electoral seat, and perhaps the northern provinces re-enter the HRE as it shifts towards becoming more of a looser customs union.
 
The HRE is restored at the Congress of Vienna (or afterwards) with its 1789 borders. Because the United Kingdom of the Netherlands includes the former Austrian Netherlands, this means the Dutch King has representation in the Reichstag. Get rid of the Belgian Revolution somehow and have the UKN be a key ally for Austria in the alt-wars of unification, defeating Prussia. The UKN is rewarded with a full electoral seat, and perhaps the northern provinces re-enter the HRE as it shifts towards becoming more of a looser customs union.

You could give the Netherlands Cologne (and part of the Rhineland) in this scenario and give it his electoral seat.
 

Susano

Banned
You could give the Netherlands Cologne (and part of the Rhineland) in this scenario and give it his electoral seat.

Cologne wasnt an electorate at the end of the HREGN anymore. The electorates at the end of the HREGN were Bohemia, Bavaria, Brandenburg, Saxony, Hannover, Hesse-Kassel, Baden, Württemberg and Salzburg.
 
Cologne wasnt an electorate at the end of the HREGN anymore. The electorates at the end of the HREGN were Bohemia, Bavaria, Brandenburg, Saxony, Hannover, Hesse-Kassel, Baden, Württemberg and Salzburg.
It wasn't? I didn't realie that. When did that happen? The last couple of years of the HRE or earlier?
Anyway that doesn't realy matter in this scenario. If the Netherlands gains Cologne after a war with Prussia or something the electorate of Cologne could be revived for the Netherland's sake.
 

Susano

Banned
It wasn't? I didn't realie that. When did that happen? The last couple of years of the HRE or earlier?
Anyway that doesn't realy matter in this scenario. If the Netherlands gains Cologne after a war with Prussia or something the electorate of Cologne could be revived for the Netherland's sake.

1803 (so, yes, three years before the end), Reichsdeputationshauptschluss - the act that secularised all ecclestial territories (with the exception of tiny territories of the German and Maltese Orders), including the three archbischopal electorates, and that comepnsated those pwoers who had lost land west of the Rhine to Revolutionary France with those former ecclestial territories. At the same time, Salzburg (created for the Habsburg ruler of Tuscany, which had also been occupied by France), Hesse-Kassel, Baden and Württemberg were given electorial rank.

And I doubt it would fall into Dutch hands, anyways. As was said, IF the Netherlands gain any territory at all, it would Belgium. And even that is an IF - IOTL they only got it so they could be a buffer power against France... there were IOTL and will be ITTL many powers who will compete to gain land. Russia most likely will use the chance to grab Poland like it did IOTL, and then Prussia needs to be compensated, and we have the OTL situation.
 
AFAIK Belgium had three possible owners in 1813:

Austria: They did not want it any more. In fact they had already spend most of the 18th century to switch it for Bavaria.

France: After losing the Napoleonic Wars this was out of the question.

Holland: Strongest case because of shared language and history. Ironically, popular support in Holland for incorporating Belgium was lower than in France, because the Belgian population was about one and a half times the Dutch one and to top it off 100% Catholic.


Dutch control over parts of the Rhine area hinges on wether Prussia gains Saxony or not.


For an earlier Dutch electorate POD, is it maybe possible to get some part of the Burgundian Circle an elector? This could end up in Dutch hands later on.
 

Susano

Banned
AFAIK Belgium had three possible owners in 1813:

Austria: They did not want it any more. In fact they had already spend most of the 18th century to switch it for Bavaria.

France: After losing the Napoleonic Wars this was out of the question.

Holland: Strongest case because of shared language and history. Ironically, popular support in Holland for incorporating Belgium was lower than in France, because the Belgian population was about one and a half times the Dutch one and to top it off 100% Catholic.
Or Prussia, who had it occupied while ownership was determined, and the same rational as them gaining the Rhineland (a strong power at the brorder to France) would apply. In a TL where Saxony is left intact Prussia might gain Belgium as further compensation...

Dutch control over parts of the Rhine area hinges on wether Prussia gains Saxony or not.
Among quite many other things. For one thing, why should the Netherlands gain any more territory anyways? So even if Prussia gains Saxony its unlikely the Netherlands would gain the Rhineland.

For an earlier Dutch electorate POD, is it maybe possible to get some part of the Burgundian Circle an elector? This could end up in Dutch hands later on.
After the original Kurverein it was difficult to enter it. So it would have to be a formidable Burgundian great or middle power.. and then it would be unlikely anything "Dutch" could evolve from that...
 
Hm, Wittelsbach - Bavaria + Palatinate + Belgium = Kingdom of Burgundy (plus electorate).

Burgundy + Netherlands = ??? (but still an electorate).
Maybe a royal marriage, where the dutch members inherits the whole thing and fully join the (not unreformed) HRE after the *congress of Vienna? This of course has the added bonus of the everlasting kingdom of Burgundy existing...
 
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