The challenge, should you accept it, is to have the US decend into a second civil war by the 1990s. You can chose the POD anywhere after 1945.
AH Challenge: 2nd American Civil War in the 1990s
- Thread starter Emperor Qianlong
- Start date
ninebucks
Banned
1961: A high-brass Soviet General develops a syphillitic madness. He hijacks the Soviet nuclear facilities.
The USSR begins a nuclear war with the USA against the Kremlin's will.
The entire industrialised world is destroyed.
1990s: The remnants of American society have pulled together and began to fight each other over who has the right to reform the United States.
The USSR begins a nuclear war with the USA against the Kremlin's will.
The entire industrialised world is destroyed.
1990s: The remnants of American society have pulled together and began to fight each other over who has the right to reform the United States.
Wow, scary.
But actually, that was not quite my idea... (I already chose the POD after 1945 to ensure that no Nazi victory scenarios are permissable). I should perhaps have made the restrictions somewhat differently, because a 'cold war goes hot' scenario is not what I had in mind. I'm indifferent though about the Soviet Union surviving longer/shorter.
maverick
Banned
The Little Rock incident of 1957 ends with casualties, and by the time of the June of 1963 incident, Federal and National guard units start shooting at each other again, but now George Wallace is able to rally the whites and politicians of the South behind him, including the White Citizens' council and such orgarnizations.
Following the 1963 incidents, black people start rioting over the south, leading to white people rioting through the south to attack the blacks.
Kennedy sends troops once the federal marshals prove to be under-equipped and the riots spread north.
By 1965: irregular racial war throughout the United States. And what do the Soviets do? they decide whether to blockade Berlin again or to go for Yugoslavia.
Following the 1963 incidents, black people start rioting over the south, leading to white people rioting through the south to attack the blacks.
Kennedy sends troops once the federal marshals prove to be under-equipped and the riots spread north.
By 1965: irregular racial war throughout the United States. And what do the Soviets do? they decide whether to blockade Berlin again or to go for Yugoslavia.
What qualifies as a Second Civil War?
Must it be entire states trying to seceed, rather than a class/race war?
Does it have to include the South once again in rebellion, since the Civil War was very much South vs. US?
Must it be on the same scale as the Civil War?
At a reasonable most, I think you could get race riots that create a formation of militias that the federal government, for one reason or another, has trouble confronting.
Otherwise, I'd say that it's near ASB to have a serious second Civil War in the US with a POD post-WW2. By then the South was mostly reconciled to the Union, and no other region has ever had a serious alternative culture. With trains and planes and cars, anyone and everyone in the US lives in every state. No longer is it normal for a family to have lived on the same land for generations; not having a single populace seriously harms sectionalism.
Plus, radio and the movies have created a blending of American culture. Cultural differances disappear when everyone's been listening to the same songs and the same commercials and watched the same actors for generations. Regional accents lessen, values become more standardized, differances for conflict are ironed over.
Even direct foreign intervention is hardly possible against a nuclear superpower. Even in the military's dark days post-Vietnam, WW3 wouldn't have been anything close to acceptable for the Soviets.
However, there are interesting ideas you could use to start an interesting situation.
The government could be lost in a decapitation strike, and a military junta/dictatorship takes over. A farce of democracy is continued, but after the Cold War is won a popular revolt (with blood shed in battles between troops loyal to the govt. and those who joined the people) takes over the nation, which is resisted for awhile by the military.
Or (to take a contingency plan I love), the Reds win in the Italian Civil War/elections, and per a contingency plan Sicily is annexed by the US and rushed into statehood to keep control of the Mediterranean ,with the Mafia's assistance on the ground. However, the Reds in Italy infiltrate and start an insurgency that tries to take Sicily out of the Union, a de facto Civil War in a far away state.
Must it be entire states trying to seceed, rather than a class/race war?
Does it have to include the South once again in rebellion, since the Civil War was very much South vs. US?
Must it be on the same scale as the Civil War?
At a reasonable most, I think you could get race riots that create a formation of militias that the federal government, for one reason or another, has trouble confronting.
Otherwise, I'd say that it's near ASB to have a serious second Civil War in the US with a POD post-WW2. By then the South was mostly reconciled to the Union, and no other region has ever had a serious alternative culture. With trains and planes and cars, anyone and everyone in the US lives in every state. No longer is it normal for a family to have lived on the same land for generations; not having a single populace seriously harms sectionalism.
Plus, radio and the movies have created a blending of American culture. Cultural differances disappear when everyone's been listening to the same songs and the same commercials and watched the same actors for generations. Regional accents lessen, values become more standardized, differances for conflict are ironed over.
Even direct foreign intervention is hardly possible against a nuclear superpower. Even in the military's dark days post-Vietnam, WW3 wouldn't have been anything close to acceptable for the Soviets.
However, there are interesting ideas you could use to start an interesting situation.
The government could be lost in a decapitation strike, and a military junta/dictatorship takes over. A farce of democracy is continued, but after the Cold War is won a popular revolt (with blood shed in battles between troops loyal to the govt. and those who joined the people) takes over the nation, which is resisted for awhile by the military.
Or (to take a contingency plan I love), the Reds win in the Italian Civil War/elections, and per a contingency plan Sicily is annexed by the US and rushed into statehood to keep control of the Mediterranean ,with the Mafia's assistance on the ground. However, the Reds in Italy infiltrate and start an insurgency that tries to take Sicily out of the Union, a de facto Civil War in a far away state.
Well Dean, I didn't specify the mode of the civil war... and also, I like the ideas you propose. I wonder though, what do you have in mind for a decapitation strike?
There was a 1990s Civil War TL involving Perot voters, the Branch Davidians, etc. It was online somewhere, but I for the life of me can't remember where it was.
Simplist way would be for a rogue government attack, a terrorist strike, or the like.
Tom Clancy did a good one; he had a person fly a passenger jet into a Joint Secession of Congress, killing the Supreme Court, most of Congress, and the President. Granted, by the 1900s paranoia/fear of decapitation strikes would prevent this by keeping a number of Congressmen and their "backups" away, never let the Pres and vice-pres be in the same official event, and leave most of the SC away.
But, you could carry it out to the vice dies of unrelated death beforehand (and a replacement hasn't been confirmed), the Pres and most of Congress kick it, and a nervous military in a time of crisis (with the SC's blessing at first) assume control. But then hardliners refuse to give up control when the SC asks them to, and ta da.
But in all of the "plausible" ideas I proposed, they all had a similar theme. They were all small conflicts that barely deserved to name. An insurgency? Britain put up with an insurgency for decades. A coup opposed by a popular revolution? The military isn't much when its own troops join their countrymen. The race riots are the most likely, if you have national guard troops that either refuse to fire on their own citizens or are also racist.