AH Challange: Ottoman Empire close US Ally in 2009

Philip

Donor
Wasn't the Sultan also Caliph? Wouldn't that make him more than a mere figurehead?

The Queen of the UK is also the Defender of the Faith. I don't see why the Sultan's position as Caliph necessarily makes him less of a figurehead.
 
Indeed, most of the later Caliphs were puppets of "secular" Muslim rulers, IIRC.

All you really need is 1.) a common threat and 2.) not too horribly repugnant government and the oil will do the rest: an alliance is in the works. The enemy can be Russia (fascist or communist) or Germany (there's a good chance that in the Victorious Central Powers TL Germany and the Ottomans will eventually fall out, especially if the Germans pick up French north Africa and start treating their new subjects with their usual consideration and humanity): and given the example of OTL, as long as they don't eat babies in public and are willing to side with the US against the Enemy of The Day, they're OK in the US government's book.

Bruce
 
Indeed, most of the later Caliphs were puppets of "secular" Muslim rulers, IIRC.

All you really need is 1.) a common threat and 2.) not too horribly repugnant government and the oil will do the rest: an alliance is in the works. The enemy can be Russia (fascist or communist) or Germany (there's a good chance that in the Victorious Central Powers TL Germany and the Ottomans will eventually fall out, especially if the Germans pick up French north Africa and start treating their new subjects with their usual consideration and humanity): and given the example of OTL, as long as they don't eat babies in public and are willing to side with the US against the Enemy of The Day, they're OK in the US government's book.

Bruce

Though by the way, what alliance ? :confused:
 
The Ottoman Empire definitely could have survived and indeed done pretty well if its leaders had had the sense to stay out of WWI.

If the Soviet Union still comes into being, and events in the rest of the world take a similar course to OTL, the Ottomans would make an excellent ally for the USA against the Soviet Union. The Ottoman Empire would be like a much larger, oil-rich version of OTL Turkey, a member of a NATO-like military alliance designed to prevent the expansion of Soviet influence.
 
The Queen of the UK is also the Defender of the Faith. I don't see why the Sultan's position as Caliph necessarily makes him less of a figurehead.
Well he DID declare Jihad on the allies in WWI--though of course many people were fairly skeptical since they were fighting as Christian allies at the time. Maybe it was done to retain more loyalty in the Arab provinces? Regardless it did not have much effect, even in India.
 
The Ottoman Empire would be like a much larger, oil-rich version of OTL Turkey, a member of a NATO-like military alliance designed to prevent the expansion of Soviet influence.

Don't forget about it most likely will become more liberal-democratic than OTL Republic of Turkey for most of its lifetime, besides also being less westernized and much less antagonizing to religions at the same time.

Oh, and of course less racist too.
 
Regarding the Sultan, he would be just a figurehead - he was by WWI. In fact, the Young Turks called Mehmed V "Sultan Rubber Stamp".

However, I don't think he will be as insignificant as a British monarch. He is still the Universal Caliph, and as such had fairly serious prestige and influence in the Sunni world. With the loss of his temporal power, his spiritual authority would increase. The Caliphate might very well be a rallying point for decolonization.

The difference with the Queen is that Sunni Islam is way, way larger a religion than Anglicanism, practiced by hundreds of millions of oppressed subjects of imperial powers, and who are generally more religious. His spiritual authority would be more comparable to the Pope's than the British monarch's.
 
Y'know, Abdul Hadi Pasha (weirdly, I'm suddenly remembering your name from the old board), every once in a while you can sit back and let someone else handle these things. I was actually rather looking forward to it.

Plus it might help deal with the whole, "he persecuted me with facts," mentality some folks have if said facts came from a variety of sources.

You're right, I know. I just couldn't stay away from a thread with the word "Ottoman" in it. You guys had the situation totally under control.

Although I did add the "Sultan Rubber Stamp" factoid.
 
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