AH Challange: George Washington - Totalitarian Despot!

[poster342002]

Here's another idea I've no idea if it's been done before, but here it is if people are interested...

The challange here is to make George Washington turn into a more ruthless, dictatorial and "Robespierre-esque" post-revolutionary leader of the USA. He could be reluctantly forced down the path of toitalitariansim by events (danger of counter-revolution or bigger global efforts to restore British rule over the colonies etc) or simply have him determined to go down that path from the start.

Feel free to add any number of variants and take the timeline right up to current day, if this is OK with the forum (what sort of USA would we have today had Washingotn been a dicator? Would it still be a dictatorship or would it have since mellowed-out as France did?).

 

[MrAYield]

This could work, with Washington being a military man, could be scared of a revolution with in their new government by key thinkers such as Benjamin Franklin, John Adams and Thomas Jefferson would oust him out of the political limelight.

And he could be against the key thinkers, for not fighting in the revolution, leaving it to him to do it all.

You could create him into an Idi Amin like character, who gives himself titles like Conqueror of the British Empire http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Empirein America and fears every one in his cabnet.

 

[poster342002]

This could work, with Washington being a military man, could be scared of a revolution with in their new government by key thinkers such as Benjamin Franklin, John Adams and Thomas Jefferson would oust him out of the political limelight.

And he could be against the key thinkers, for not fighting in the revolution, leaving it to him to do it all.

You could create him into an Idi Amin like character, who gives himself titles like Conqueror of the British Empire http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Empirein America and fears every one in his cabnet.

Some intriguing ideas, there.

Anyone else want to add theirs ...?

 

[yourworstnightmare]

Emperor George I of the United Empire of America.

 

[David S Poepoe]

Don't quite see how that will happen at least until 1800. There would be too many veterans of the War of Independence still alive and capable of taking up arms. Also any time before that would just see the colonies break away to protect themselves against a Continental Army that has no way of raising money to pay for itself.

 

[MrAYield]

Don't quite see how that will happen at least until 1800. There would be too many veterans of the War of Independence still alive and capable of taking up arms. Also any time before that would just see the colonies break away to protect themselves against a Continental Army that has no way of raising money to pay for itself.

Well you could have it happen on July 4, 1776, instead of congress signing the Declaration of Independence George Washington, could come in and demand fall control be given to him.

 

[David S Poepoe]

Well you could have it happen on July 4, 1776, instead of congress signing the Declaration of Independence George Washington, could come in and demand fall control be given to him.

Well, I would consider that the Congress could give Washington the title of 'Dictator' for the duration of the emergency, but I think the Congress would still be hard to control - and the individual states may refuse any thing. The states are still sovereign in most things they do and the central government has already demonstrated itself slow on paying the troops.

 

[GreatScottMarty]

Well you could have it happen on July 4, 1776, instead of congress signing the Declaration of Independence George Washington, could come in and demand fall control be given to him.

He was offered the Kingship and refused it. He viewed himself as a modern day "Cinncinatus" (Roman offered dictatorship and then resigned after the crisis passed). So it was not Washington's character to become a dictator. If you want him to become a King have the COnstitutional Convention setup a Kingship. He will be the only offered the crown.

As for him seizing power. I just don't see it. I have read a little Washington and it doesn't seem in his character. If you read "His Excellency" by Joseph Ellis you will see what I am talking about. He viewed himself as a Roman Patrician being repressed by an Emperor an ocean away. The founding brothers (I view them as brothers not fathers) were Romanophiles and highly literate in the Classics as such they new the history of the Roman Republic and viewed themselves and there work as that of Cato and not of Caesar.

I don't want to say ASB but I feel like it is because of Washington attempts a coup (i.e perhaps he backs the Newburgh conspiracy) than there are plenty of people who would be willing to take him down a peg. Not to mention there are alternative 1st Presidents to consider. Ben Franklin is possible, John Adams, and more who would and could do the job as PResident. The reason Washington was the 1st POTUS was because he DIDNT want the job and everyone knew it so he got. Follow my logic?

I would love to explore actual ways for him to sieze power but I don't think he had hubris or the crassness about him to do it.

 

[poster342002]

He was offered the Kingship and refused it. He viewed himself as a modern day "Cinncinatus" (Roman offered dictatorship and then resigned after the crisis passed). So it was not Washington's character to become a dictator. If you want him to become a King have the COnstitutional Convention setup a Kingship. He will be the only offered the crown.

As for him seizing power. I just don't see it. I have read a little Washington and it doesn't seem in his character. If you read "His Excellency" by Joseph Ellis you will see what I am talking about. He viewed himself as a Roman Patrician being repressed by an Emperor an ocean away. The founding brothers (I view them as brothers not fathers) were Romanophiles and highly literate in the Classics as such they new the history of the Roman Republic and viewed themselves and there work as that of Cato and not of Caesar.

I don't want to say ASB but I feel like it is because of Washington attempts a coup (i.e perhaps he backs the Newburgh conspiracy) than there are plenty of people who would be willing to take him down a peg. Not to mention there are alternative 1st Presidents to consider. Ben Franklin is possible, John Adams, and more who would and could do the job as PResident. The reason Washington was the 1st POTUS was because he DIDNT want the job and everyone knew it so he got. Follow my logic?

I would love to explore actual ways for him to sieze power but I don't think he had hubris or the crassness about him to do it.

All you'd need to do would give Washington a slightly different personal history/set of life experiences which hardened his attitudes somewhat. Make him believe the new nation could only be held together with an iron hand for some reason.

 

[Whanztastic]

Have Augustine start drinking after Jane's death, becoming an alcoholic and perhaps some-what abusive by the time George is born. George grows up bitter and jaded, not believing that people are to be trusted.

 

[GreatScottMarty]

All you'd need to do would give Washington a slightly different personal history/set of life experiences which hardened his attitudes somewhat. Make him believe the new nation could only be held together with an iron hand for some reason.

@Whanztastic

But then he wouldn't be George Washington would he?

 

[Wolfpaw]

He was offered the Kingship and refused it.

Was he actually formally offered the Kingship by anyone? I know that most of the populace and a lot of soldiers and officers wanted/expected Washington to become King (IIRC, "Mad" Anthony Wayne was in favor of this, though I may be mistaken), but did anybody ever sit him down and say:

"Listen, Georgie. Me and some of the guys here, well, we think it'd just be the bees knees if you decided to become king."

...or something to that effect.

 

[Monopolist]

If Washington were King, this man would be king. link

It seems to me that Washington was a candidate to be offered the monarchy, but I don't think it ever actually happened. But don't quote me on that.

Apparently Bonnie_Prince_Charlie was actually offered the American throne. Also, Prince Heinrich of Prussia and Prince Edward, Duke of Kent, were given the chance too, according to this guy on google answers (not the best source, I know.)

Bonnie Prince Charlie as King of America TL would be very cool, IMO.

 

[Whanztastic]

@Whanztastic

But then he wouldn't be George Washington would he?

Yes he would, not OTL's George Washington but he would be George Washington. I could get into a possible worlds identity debate if you wish but I feel its abusive father is an appropriate option.

 

[Wolfpaw]

If Washington were King, this man would be king link

I never bought that whole "It would go to his brother" wash. Washington had a song; George Washington Parke Custis. While not of the same bloodline, he was nonetheless GW's formally adopted son and there was absolutely nothing wrong with adopting an heir in case the monarch was childless; the only reason it rarely happened was due to a) HUGE royal families in Europe and b) court intrigue caused by the former issue.

Plus, if ever there was an American monarchy (and believe you me, I've done a lot of research and thinking on this), the founders would probably try to limit its power and size as much as possible. For example, GW's relatives will probably not be considered royal, they'll just get mad props for being related to the guy. Also, no nobility, by and large powerless and ceremonial throne, Congress and the Presidency still being top dogs, etc., etc.

Apparently Bonnie_Prince_Charlie was actually offered the American throne. Also, Prince Heinrich of Prussia and Prince Edward, Duke of Kent, were given the chance too, according to this guy on google answers (not the best source, I know.)

Even if this is true (which I am dubious of), I can't see it happening. The monarch's either going to be an American (and even then, only really GW) or a no-go.

Okay, maybe Lafayette would do

 

[Monopolist]

*snip*

I just google searched something about King George I of America or something, didn't put much thought in it. You're probably right in essence.

Even if this is true (which I am dubious of), I can't see it happening. The monarch's either going to be an American (and even then, only really GW) or a no-go.

Okay, maybe Lafayette would do

Probably not so much for the other 2, but Bonnie Prince Charlie has multiple (as in more than one ) sources saying he was at least considered. In the end, it'd probably be an American, but hey, if you're going to reach elsewhere, why not get a man who considers himself Exiled Royalty of your Mother Country?

Back on the continent Prince Charlie kept plotting, even flirting a bit with the idea of becoming King in America during that revolution

(site for that quote)

I thought it was on Wikipedia too, but I checked and didn't see it. Maybe my skimming skills are off right now...

So, probably more likely an American King (if that unlikely scenario happened, and if it did the only candidate would be George) but Charlie's a fun alternate and possibly ASB King.

Oh, and Lafayette's good too

 

[Cook]

How about George Washington; Lord Protector of these United States?

“You have been sat too long here for any good you have been doing. Depart, I say, and let us have done with you. In the name of God go!”

 

[GreatScottMarty]

Yes he would, not OTL's George Washington but he would be George Washington. I could get into a possible worlds identity debate if you wish but I feel its abusive father is an appropriate option.

George Washington was almost entirely influenced by his Step-mother. His father died (IIRC before he was 10 definitly dead by 20) and even then was usually involved in some kind of business or as an official of Virginia Colony. Yes I agree that all it takes is one time for Washington to become irreparably different. So instead of a massive inferiority complex maybe he succumbs to the same alcoholism as Augustine and is fall down drunk at Bunker Hill (or TTL's equivalent) totally discredits himself and is replaced by Horatio Gates or Arthur Lee. What I am saying is change something like that so far back in a person's past (esp. a hugely undocumented childhood like Washington's) and anything is possible.

I did some thinking on this. I think you best bet is Washington being fed up with Continental Congress after the war and accepting the proposal from the Newburgh Conspiracy. Or at the Constitutional Convention the delegates accept Hamilton's plan (Cook I love the title) and Washington becomes Lord Protector George Washington.

 

[Cook]

Plus there is no risk of his Dictatorship, sorry, Protectorship becoming a Monarchy because old George lacked sons.
A political crisis would result if his nominated successor lacked the support of the Revolutionary Veterans.

 

[poster342002]

@Whanztastic

But then he wouldn't be George Washington would he?

He'd be an alternate George Washington: similar to OTL's in some ways (fighting to create the new nation), yet different in others.