AH Challange: Emperor Theodore Roosevelt of China

Hell yeah Teddy could conquer China! He was the Chuck Norris of his day!

You mean he made terrible movies and had lots of corny jokes about him?

No, Norris has actual martial arts skills, though none in acting. TR had a single brief episode in a war against a severely outmatched opponent. That made that sheltered Eastern city boy think he knew about war or being a tough guy.

Make TR one of the "white rajas" instead. That suits him better.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Rajahs
 
See how much more fun this is than justing shouting "ASB!"


I'll admit that I also thought it was ASB, but it is fun finding a way to make things happen. Although the work is only half done, we might have figured out how to make Teddy a major force in Chinese politics, but that isn't enough to put him on the throne.
 
Edit: Anyway, assuming you meant 1862 we have the following PODs:

1. Ward dodges the bullet
2. Teddy goes to China to escape his grief instead of North Dakota
3. Ward takes Teddy under his wing


But while that gets him into position to be a major influence in Chinese Politics, it isn't alone enough to put Teddy on the throne.

I've been thinking along the same lines. However, I am thinking about moving things up a few years.

Ward dodges the bullet and at some point returns to the US briefly during the ACW. He meets Theodore Roosevelt Sr. and strikes up a friendship with him that leads to Roosevelt Sr. to become interested in Chinese market, that will get the Roosevelts interested in China. Theodore Jr. when he becomes of age goes out to China, before or after university I haven't pinned down yet, and becomes an aide to Ward who has now risen in the ranks of reformers that are ruling in Peking. The Dowager Empress is shipped off to the country side and a series of land reforms and modest industrialization begin.

Roosevelt serves triumphantly in the Sino-Japanese War and eventually is appointed Minister of War and later becomes a bit of a power behind the throne.
 
TL off the top of my head.

So have Ward somehow continue to live, and maybe consent to take a wife related to the Emperor so that they can be sure of him. Li Hongzhang his second in command can maybe convince him. Continuing to lead the EVA, his exploits rise and he and Li continue to modernize parts of China. TR hears about his fame, and in his moment of grief and after the political convention, instead of heading out to North Dakota to hunt buffalo, he gives in to despair at the Republicans supporting his enemy James G. Blaine and leaves the country, coming under the aging Ward and Li's tutelage.

There, now TR is in an official capacity in China, with ties to high ranking officials and even the emperor in a roundabout way. Ward is getting a little old by this time (mid 50s) so he's probably going to rely more on the younger TR.

I am not a Gordon fan, so I threw him in as another European Expert brought in to bolster the self-strengthening movement, but proves himself a traitor or usurper or what not. Extra twisty? Have him be an agent for the British Crown whose job is to sabotage China's gaining strength to allow for greater British (and European) influence. TR makes a name for himself by beating Gordon and well... not my TL.
 
Okay, so we have Teddy in China, a major force in Chinese Politics, and he has possibly the best army in China. How can we leverage this to get him on the Throne?
 
Okay, so we have Teddy in China, a major force in Chinese Politics, and he has possibly the best army in China. How can we leverage this to get him on the Throne?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_rebellions

There are three between Taiping and the Boxers. If say, one of those got some more help or really did threaten the Chinese state like say, killing the emperor and immediate heirs, TR could save the day. The Muslim Hui uprising could be a possibility.

"Later, as the Qing troops began to gain the upperhand versus the rebellion, the rebellion sent a letter to Queen Victoria, asking the British Empire for formal recognition and for military assistance; the fledgling state was turned down by the British."

What if Victoria accepts? Remember, TR doesn't have to be Legitimate Emperor for more than a couple seconds :)
 

Keenir

Banned
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_rebellions

There are three between Taiping and the Boxers. If say, one of those got some more help or really did threaten the Chinese state like say, killing the emperor and immediate heirs, TR could save the day. The Muslim Hui uprising could be a possibility.

"Later, as the Qing troops began to gain the upperhand versus the rebellion, the rebellion sent a letter to Queen Victoria, asking the British Empire for formal recognition and for military assistance; the fledgling state was turned down by the British."

What if Victoria accepts? Remember, TR doesn't have to be Legitimate Emperor for more than a couple seconds :)

what if Teddy becomes Emperor because he helps the Hui win the day? (even just with his family connections, the US will recognize the Hui China)
 
what if Teddy becomes Emperor because he helps the Hui win the day? (even just with his family connections, the US will recognize the Hui China)
A mainline protestant leading a Muslim overlordship of the home of Confucius? The mind boggles.

....

Why not? I want to read this TL.
 
A mainline protestant leading a Muslim overlordship of the home of Confucius? The mind boggles.

Indeed it does, and I don't think it will work. Teddy will have surely been made to swear oaths to the Qing Dynasty when he takes command of the Ever Victorious Army. I think it's more if one of the Rebellions is more successful and China descends into warlordism. Teddy could become Emperor when he reunifies China?
 
I'd like to piece together a few ideas that people have raised here so far:

1.) Rebels sweep into Beijing and kill the emperor and his immediate family.

2.) Teddy is allied with the rebels, who realize they aren't strong enough to hold onto Beijing on their own for too long.

- or -

2.) Teddy is allied with Qing forces elsewhere in the northeast who retake Beijing from the rebels, but also realize that they won't be able to hold the city for too long on their own.

3.) Teddy is crowned emperor as a publicity stunt of sorts, aiming to get US support to back the faction currently holding Beijing. They plan to replace him with a Chinese emperor when they've consolidated their power

But does it work? Does the US enter the conflict?
 
Well, maybe someone in the US comes up with the idea that war is a great way to fix the the Long Depression and goes for it. Maybe to try and distract from the Panic of 1893? I think US involvement is pushing it. Maybe the Europeans move to actively colonize parts of China during the chaos allowing TR to seize power as Emperor of a rump China? Is it even possible for the Europeans and Japanse to partition China? Or was that a dream they never could have carried out?
 
Well, maybe someone in the US comes up with the idea that war is a great way to fix the the Long Depression and goes for it. Maybe to try and distract from the Panic of 1893? I think US involvement is pushing it. Maybe the Europeans move to actively colonize parts of China during the chaos allowing TR to seize power as Emperor of a rump China? Is it even possible for the Europeans and Japanse to partition China? Or was that a dream they never could have carried out?

I don't think a partition of China would work. The idea of a united China was just too strong at the time.

That said, Teddy's faction crowning him Emperor in a successful attempt to garner US support I think could work. The Roosevelts were a powerful buisness clan, and would certainly support Theodore if it looked like he had a chance to open the Chinese markets up to them.
 
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