AH Challange; D-Day 1945

In a NO NUKE TL, Have the Ally invasion of Europe postponed till 1945, and the surrender of Germany in 1946.

This means the Russians are delayed a year behind OTL also.
 
That could have happened if the window in the bad weather had not appeared on June 6th 1944. There would not have been another combination of tides at the correct time of day before the end of 1944.
 

hammo1j

Donor
Scenario I

Stronger Germany: strategic withdrawals permitted as Hitler takes a back seat to his generals. Me262 brings strategic bombing to a halt.

II

No declaration of War against US. UK fights alone. As USSR invades Germany an invasion is launched to save Western Europe ITTL German resistance is assumed negligable as the Vaterland is almost lost.
 
This is an interesting concept as the decision to go on the 6th was only taken after a hastily organised Bismuth (Weather Data Collection) sortie by the RAF forecast a 36 hr window in the unfavorable conditions. There had to be low tide, partial moon and fair weather conditions all at dawn with a minimum of 12hrs daylight. If they had not gone on the 6th it would have been 1945.
 
How are the Soviets held back for another year? Also, the British economy would almost certainly not sustain another year of war.
 
This is an interesting concept as the decision to go on the 6th was only taken after a hastily organised Bismuth (Weather Data Collection) sortie by the RAF forecast a 36 hr window in the unfavorable conditions. There had to be low tide, partial moon and fair weather conditions all at dawn with a minimum of 12hrs daylight. If they had not gone on the 6th it would have been 1945.
IIRC there were two other possible Windows planned for 1944, except OTL there were major storms on Both dates.

Except I was thinking more along the lines of D-Day being planned for '45, not postponed till then
How are the Soviets held back for another year? Also, the British economy would almost certainly not sustain another year of war.
Ah :cool: But that's the Challenge part. :D
 
IIRC there were two other possible Windows planned for 1944, except OTL there were major storms on Both dates.

Except I was thinking more along the lines of D-Day being planned for '45, not postponed till then

Early May or the first or third week of June were the dates available that met the operational requirements and the Allies could not get ready before June so it would only have to be a hold up in the preparations of a month to push the invasion into '45.

Ah :cool: But that's the Challenge part. :D

If the second front was held up what effect would that have on the Eastern front?
 
If the second front was held up what effect would that have on the Eastern front?


Some, especially once the Germans knew that the allies wouldn't be coming, which is a somewhat different point from the allies knowing their not coming. However probably too late to delay the Russians a full year. What you would need is a better run Germany, especially in the battles on the eastern front or at home, to hold the Red Army back that much longer.

Also I have seen comments, think it was by Eisenhower, that if the V1 campaign had been allowed to continue Britain may not have been able to sustain an invasion. Not sure how accurate that was however.

The British economy would have sustained another year of war as it was basically part of the US war economy. British manpower would have held up without the OTL western front losses but would be nearing the end of its tether.

One question, if the allies don't land in 44, is what is Stalin's reaction. He was always demanding a 2nd and then 3rd front, even when he know it was impossible. Will he decide that, with the Soviets also suffering serious manpower shortages, its worthwhile trying to negotiate with the Nazis. After Baglation [sp] and the destruction of Army Group Central you might have seen some elements in the Nazis and army willing to overthrow Hitler to get a peace in the east.

Steve
 
... I was thinking more along the lines of D-Day being planned for '45, not postponed till then.

Interesting... I have read in various places that the Americans, up til at least Operation Torch (late '42), were pretty much set on an Overlord-style invasion in 1943. It seems unlikely they would allow it to be postponed another year.

Maybe if the invasion of Italy goes badly wrong? I mean, more so than OTL - it turns out to be an even tougher underbelly than OTL... :)

Alternatively, if the Soviets are not doing as well as OTL, there may be a feeling that it's OK to let the Soviets and Nazis bleed each other dry until the summer of '45.
 
How are the Soviets held back for another year?

The Nazis transfer a lot more divisions to the Eastern Front than in OTL. In 1944 the Reichsfuhrer was obsessed with an invasion thru France. Also have the Italian campaign bog down a lot faster, so the Nazis can transfer more divisions to Russia.
 
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