AH: Catholic Church a mouth piece of radical revolutions.

Chalange: With POD between the 16th and 19th centuries come up with a way for the Catholic Church to become a mouth piece of its own brand radical Republicanism.
 
First, the Reformantion would have to happen more the way that Luther imagined it to start with. The problem with that is the RCC was the major diplomatic power in Europe at that time. In one sense the Roman Empire in the West never really fell. It merely morphed into a religious based one with a much more reliable means of selecting the Emperor.

Another posiblity is that there is founded a politically radical monastic order that begins to accumalate a great deal of influnce in Rome
 
There are several possibilities, but one interesting point is that I believe the Republican Party in its early years (you may know them from their work in the Lincoln administration, the Reconstruction amendments, and the Homestead Act) was associated with Catholics and characterized (and to a certain degree caricatured) as a pro-Catholic Party.

In terms of transformational political change, it really doesn't get any better than the Fourteenth Amendment.

Another possibility is considering the historical evolution of slavery. In England and its colonies in the seventeenth century (and I believe until sometime later in France and its colonies) the enslavement of Christians was forbidden. This is partly the reason for the invention of race as a "natural" category describing skin color and other differences among humans, because slave-holding interests needed a rationale to enslave people that couldn't be changed as easily as religion. It provides an interesting foundation to work from, I think.

We frequently complain that the Church at various points in history (the translation of the Bible into the vernacular, the introduction of the heliocentric solar system) put up its hand and said "stop" in the face of historical change. How cool would it be for it do the same at a moment of absolute moral unassailability, laying everything on the line to forbid the enslavement of Africans? But I wonder what bits of intellecutal and religious history have to be changed for that to happen? Anyone know?
 
One crazy idea I had was to have a Catholic Church that is somehow turned against monarchy, this leads to the Church turning to supporting public education of the masses earlier, arming the people against the state, and promoting the idea that the people govern themselves through elected officals but the Church acts as the nations "Morale guide and guardian.".

I had this idea that most of Catholic Europe is caught up in this revolutiuon some time in the mid 18th century with Bishops and Republican leaders overthrowing various Monarchs in their respective nations. Having constituions that outline freedoms of speech, religion, rights to bear arms,etc. but acknowladge the Church as the religion of the state and holding a special "advisory" position to the highest offices of the Republics. The idea was you have two forms of Republic developing at the same time the American form of Republic and then this sorta of pseudo theocratic-militaristic form of Republic that has social requiments in like all able bodied men must serve in the national guard and recive training, all able bodied citizens must serve in some sort of civil defense like organization led by the Church, etc.

So you have two kinds of Republic one that advocates individualism (i.e. the American type) and one that advocates the welfare of the whole over the individuale (i.e. Papal Republicanism).

I coin that form of government as of now, the idea of Papal Republicanism!!!

Its Macchiavellian ideas on the Republic mixed with some Canon law for good measure.
 
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I think it would take a zeitgeist changing event like a plague or enviromental catastrophe. The catholic church had was too entwined with the aristocracy of Europe.

Either that or maybe the reformation coupled with another series of schismatic anti-popes supported by Dominicans and a totally coopted aristocracy. I don't know but if perhaps some of the counselor movements that were farely successful turn into total failures.

Maybe a pope that is a calvinist who is assassinated? Then a split within in the church. France and Spain and the HRE all proclaim national churches. Heck maybe a decade of no-pope because of a deadlocked conclave.
 
Anything concerning freedom of religion for the time period in question is absolutely out of the question. The Catholic Church, up until Vatican II, and really not until the Pontificate of John Paul II, refused interfaith ecumenism and maintained that the Roman Catholic Church was the only true faith and all others were heathen. Even today, with Benedict's own special brand of ecumenism, many Catholic lay people are chaffing against what they see as anti-Catholic liberalism permeating the Church hierarchy. Even if a radically different Church view on the rights of the people and the role of government were to come about, tinkering with ideas concerning dogma is harder than making a diamond out of soap.

I could see various POD's that would allow a radically-republican Church supporting revolution in various nations, but then one has to ask the question:

Would the Holy See, in its capacity as direct ruler over the Papal States, support revolution in its own territory? Even a very pro-human rights Church today exercises complete and absolute control over Vatican City in the same mode it did when the Papal States were still in existence prior to the Unification of Italy.

I can see the Church supporting reform and constitutional government better than I can see the Church supporting revolution, especially in countries like France, Spain, and Austria. To support a revolution in these nations that had, for centuries, defended the Papacy against all comers, would be paramount to theological suicide. There would be major schisms all over Catholic Europe, especially in areas such as France where the Church was entirely way-too-intertwined in the government of the state.

France would not have been able to support the Church once the Church started sponsoring or supporting anti-monarchial revolutions, and so would have worked with French elements of the Church who were opposed to this sort of thing to get rid of the Papal elements of the government and replace them with anti-Papal elements in order to effectively schism without too much upheaval in the state and government. Put down a couple of minor insurrections and you have the "Most Catholic" Kingdom of France joining the ranks of the Protestants.

Or you just have France, Spain, and Austria electing an Anti-Pope and putting down the revolutions anyway.

I think the focus should be on a more reform-minded Church rather than a revolution-minded Church, though I like the idea of the Church putting everything on the line to condemn slavery in all its forms, though this would really only apply to the British and the Americans as the Spanish, French, and Portuguese colonial policies of inclusion pretty much butterflied away too heavy an involvement in slavery and made it more beneficial and economically prosperous to facilitate the slave trade until they all got stuck in Haiti and the French had to do something with them. In this instance, a Church that is staunchly anti-slavery would probably have succeeded in helping the French establish a department in Haiti, or relocating many of the former slaves to French possessions in Africa.
 
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