Agustín de Iturbide in mexico

Mrstrategy

Banned
how would mexico be if Agustín de Iturbide and the Mexican Empire did not collapse (no Plan of Casa Mata or it failed)
The Federal Republic lasted almost twelve years with constant struggles between the main political parties: the Conservatives, landowners and former monarchists, favoring a strong central government and a confessional state; and the Liberals, republicans favoring a limited government power divided among the federated states and a secular nation. That caused a severe political instability and violence.

The republic was ruled by two triumvirates and nine presidents. Guadalupe Victoria, was the only president who completed his full term in this period and in almost 30 years of independent Mexico
the federal republic was the country created after the fall of the Mexican Empire
 
Iturbide as emperor isn't going to solve the structural issues Mexico inherited from centuries of mostly misrule by Spain. As evidenced by the Plan of Casa Mata's very existence, he obviously would be a source of those issues in his own right.
 
I think if there is no plan of Casa Mata, it will happen sooner or later. Somebody greedy for power or jealous of Agustin would probably conspire against him. Agustin's throne is a shaky one (IDK if even anyone in Europe acknowledged it's legitimacy), so he'd need to start making friends, not enemies, with power post-haste. America is the obvious candidate, but they're not gonna be looking at a Mexican Empire with favor, even if it is ruled by a Mexican, not a European. Opening channels with Brazil, or (can't remember is José San Martin is still alive) one of the more pro-monarchical leaders in South America's governments for support.

If the plan fails, Agustin's legitimacy hangs on how he deals with the conspirators/traitors. If he's too harsh, he makes himself sure of them trying again; too lenient and he's setting himself up for the same story. Maybe hang the ringleaders, and imprison the inner circle, but pardon the rest?

PS: I like the idea, but the subject of Latin American history puts me on shaky ground, since I know very little about it. But these are my thoughts, for what they're worth.
 
I think if there is no plan of Casa Mata, it will happen sooner or later. Somebody greedy for power or jealous of Agustin would probably conspire against him. Agustin's throne is a shaky one (IDK if even anyone in Europe acknowledged it's legitimacy), so he'd need to start making friends, not enemies, with power post-haste. America is the obvious candidate, but they're not gonna be looking at a Mexican Empire with favor, even if it is ruled by a Mexican, not a European. Opening channels with Brazil, or (can't remember is José San Martin is still alive) one of the more pro-monarchical leaders in South America's governments for support.

If the plan fails, Agustin's legitimacy hangs on how he deals with the conspirators/traitors. If he's too harsh, he makes himself sure of them trying again; too lenient and he's setting himself up for the same story. Maybe hang the ringleaders, and imprison the inner circle, but pardon the rest?

PS: I like the idea, but the subject of Latin American history puts me on shaky ground, since I know very little about it. But these are my thoughts, for what they're worth.
San Martin was alive during that time and would die in 1850. IIRC, he left South America in 1824 to live in Europe.
 
San Martin offered his services to help with certain things related to the military on a couple of occasions. My knowledge of this area is not that great but what could Iturbide and Mexico offer San Martin? I would imagine that Mexico's finances are not in a good position at that time.
 
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Mrstrategy

Banned
San Martin offered his services to help with certain things related to the military on a couple of occasions. My knowledge of this area is not the great but what could Iturbide and Mexico offer San Martin? I would imagine that Mexico's finances are not in a good position at that time.
They can give him land?
 
If we want to see Iturbide as a sort of Mexican Napoléon Bonaparte (which IIRC how many see him), can he attempt to establish links with the other monarchies (maybe Brazil (since I can't think that Spain or Naples (maybe Parma) would give him an infanta) or the Napoleonic houses (Murat, Bonaparte, Beauharnais (through which he links to Bavaria, Baden and co.) with the eye to becoming more permanently entrenched in Mexico and that trade circle of kings?

The then King of Portugal/Emperor of Brasil's youngest daughter/sister married a non-royal (her descendants today claim the title of duke of Bragança), so perhaps she can be offered to Agustin Jnr as a way of doing so?
 

Deleted member 67076

There's a timeline thats about this. Pretty funny and good read.

Political stability alone would drastically improve Mexico's position during the next few decades economically and infrastructure wise and help cause a feedback loop of economic expansion, increased immigration (and thus improvements in productivity) and further expansion for a few decades.

Perhaps the empire can go like in Brazil and obtain vast amounts of foreign investment? Like the Porifiato, but decades earlier.

Additionally, you're likely to keep the Spanish treaties of subsidy with the Comanche and other natives around, which means Mexico's north won't suffer depopulation in the next few decades, meaning settlement would be easier.

However, there are structural issues that need to be addressed in Mexico. Im not sure enough how to do that.
 

Mrstrategy

Banned
There's a timeline thats about this. Pretty funny and good read.

Political stability alone would drastically improve Mexico's position during the next few decades economically and infrastructure wise and help cause a feedback loop of economic expansion, increased immigration (and thus improvements in productivity) and further expansion for a few decades.

Perhaps the empire can go like in Brazil and obtain vast amounts of foreign investment? Like the Porifiato, but decades earlier.

Additionally, you're likely to keep the Spanish treaties of subsidy with the Comanche and other natives around, which means Mexico's north won't suffer depopulation in the next few decades, meaning settlement would be easier.

However, there are structural issues that need to be addressed in Mexico. Im not sure enough how to do that.
What timeline?
 
Out of interest, how could Agustin "accomodate" the Republican element in his fledgling empire? The monarchists and the revolutionaries had sorta joined together to throw the Spanish out, but then once the Spanish were expelled, they were at sixes-and-sevens again. So does one need a common cause to unite the two elements of society for long enough that the 'Abrazo de Acatempan' becomes merely a difference of opinion as to whether the emperor should be conservative or liberal - rather than emperor vs president - and what might said cause be?
 
Ah, someone mentioned my timeline. I feel proud and a bit strange in my chest... :cool:

If I can recall from Agustín de Iturbide's memories, he did intend to establish a constitutional monarchy, but it was a long-term project of his, as the country, after 11 years of war, was in no shape to be a democracy yet (especially with the low literacy and the widespread destruction). Let's face it, and it's something that we still see nowadays in Mexico, nobody votes on an empty stomach. If everyone had just laid low probably for ten years, Mexico would have been more stable, even though the possibility of keeping Central America would be troublesome.

The key to keep the Empire and have political stability would first be patience and getting rid of the biggest troublemakers, such as Joel R. Poinsett and the always-mentioned (and despised) Santa Anna, just to name a few. Because, sadly, patience was in short supply on those days.
 
Ah, someone mentioned my timeline. I feel proud and a bit strange in my chest... :cool:

If I can recall from Agustín de Iturbide's memories, he did intend to establish a constitutional monarchy, but it was a long-term project of his, as the country, after 11 years of war, was in no shape to be a democracy yet (especially with the low literacy and the widespread destruction). Let's face it, and it's something that we still see nowadays in Mexico, nobody votes on an empty stomach. If everyone had just laid low probably for ten years, Mexico would have been more stable, even though the possibility of keeping Central America would be troublesome.

The key to keep the Empire and have political stability would first be patience and getting rid of the biggest troublemakers, such as Joel R. Poinsett and the always-mentioned (and despised) Santa Anna, just to name a few. Because, sadly, patience was in short supply on those days.

I think patience is still in short supply where it's needed, but that's just my opinion. So Agustin needs at least a decade of peace in order to make up for the decade of chaos, which means either putting Santa-Anna & co. on a very very short leash, shooting them, or packing them off to where they can't do any damage (send them as ambassador to Europe perhaps? China?)
 
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