Aftermath of The Man with the Iron Heart
- Thread starter dcd
- Start date
Well if I remember correctly, the book ended with a withdrawal of American troops from Germany. However, there would still be (AFAIR) French, British and especially Soviet troops present in the rest of Germany.
dcd
Banned
So what happens then?How does the National Socialist West Germany fare?How is it viewed in the world? What about the international National Socialist movement?
There's no reason to think the Nazis would automatically take over West Germany, Never read the book, but it seems like there's a shaky West German government in place when US troops withdraw. Moreover, neither the French nor the Soviets will permit the existence of a renewed Third Reich so you might see France taking on a lot more of the occupation duties.
Well, the French and British will likely divide the American zones of occupation between them, not wanting to give the Soviets more land. So there is the possibility that there could be a West Germany, but one that is essentially a puppet between the Brits and French. Also I should note that even with a successful German Freedom Front, the brits and French would not allow a new Nazi regime to take power.
This map shows that zones of occupation.
Allied-occupied Germany - Wikipedia
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PrussianPrince
Banned
The book inplies the Werewolves are on track to re establish the Reich quite well, but that is compared to OTL. The fact is that it could go either way. The book sees them pioneer a lot of modern terror tactics, and contemplate 9/11 style attacks as well. The Werewolves are actually somewhat surprised at how "easy" it is to break the will of the West.
At minimum this would lead to a war on terror situation in the middle of the cold war which is bound to be loads of fun for everyone involved.
At minimum this would lead to a war on terror situation in the middle of the cold war which is bound to be loads of fun for everyone involved.
A Nazi West Germany would do whatever it took to get an atom bomb, so you could see a situation like Iran or North Korea OTL, or like Pakistan and India in conjunction with the USSR. If the Nazis get there first, they will seek to liberate East Germany by force of arms
History Learner
Banned
At the end of the book, the Anglo-Americans have pulled out of their zones and almost immediately Pro-Nazi elements take control. The last POV character is actually a German who, as soon as the last convoy of American trucks begins driving away, pulls out his NSDAP Party Armband and puts it on. Prior to this, it's stated only the French and Soviets are staying in their zones but its suggest that France cannot do this indefinitely; eventually, due to the Nazi-controlled former Anglo-American sectors, they can force the French out of their own ala-Algeria/Vietnam/etc. Only the Soviets are expected to remain, and it's hoped by the U.S. that their atomic monopoly will be sufficient to keep the Soviets from overrunning "West" Germany (In order to maintain a buffer) while also keeping the resurgent Nazis in check.
BlackDragon98
Banned
I mean, they could just copy what the Soviet, Polish and French partisans did to the Wehrmacht when they were the occupiers.
heck, many of the Nazi Werwulfs were probably involved in guerilla fighting themselves.
Who do you think would compose the new german nazi government? Speer, Dönitz... maybe Artur Axmann?
The French retired from Algeria and Vietnam because they were divided at home about the war itself and both counties weren't a credible threat to France itself. But a new Nazi Germany is all an other thing: French were traumatized by their 1940 defeat and will do everything to avoid it happens again. De Gaull will take a personal satisfaction pulling the trigger. More important, if the West allows a new Nazi takeover in its Occupation Zone Soviet Union will not allow this to become a large base to guerrilla operations in East Germany so Zhukov will move to crush immediatly this threat. If West wants avoid a Soviet occupation of all Germany it must continue its occupation in Western Germany, plain and simple.
Before or after, the Werewolfs will try a mass revolt who will be put down with tanks (we saw in Hungary how little this can hurt the Red Army) and then someone could remember the Morgenthau Plan and order a mass deindustrialization of Germany and an imposed split of the countries in little Allied-controlled states. It was an idea of Churchill and I can see De Gaulle and Stalin quickly agree.
About US the book seems implied Truman will lose 1948 Election and so Dewey will preside to the total and systematic annihilation of Germany as a nation.
Before or after, the Werewolfs will try a mass revolt who will be put down with tanks (we saw in Hungary how little this can hurt the Red Army) and then someone could remember the Morgenthau Plan and order a mass deindustrialization of Germany and an imposed split of the countries in little Allied-controlled states. It was an idea of Churchill and I can see De Gaulle and Stalin quickly agree.
About US the book seems implied Truman will lose 1948 Election and so Dewey will preside to the total and systematic annihilation of Germany as a nation.
History Learner
Banned
IIRC, the pullout is in 1946 or 1947, so I doubt the first two but Artur Axmann seems plausible.
In the book, a large portion of the German population in the Soviet zone of occupation has been resettled in Siberia in waves of retaliation against the attacks. It's been a while since I read it, but I believe one Soviet official jokes that there are now more Germans in Siberia than in the USSR's zone of Germany.
John Farson
Banned
Yeah, regardless of the ridiculous Iraq/Afghanistan War parallels, my hunch is that ultimately TTL Germany will be far worse off. Without the narrativium/plot fiat, the Western Allies would have had little problem in crushing the Werewolf insurgency from the start.
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History Learner
Banned
I doubt it; the Anglo-Americans even IOTL were gutting their forces, first for the Pacific, then due to political demands at home. With peace at hand, there isn't going to be much stomach for such and the French can't ever hope to occupy all of West Germany for long.
I think we should go for Axmann since he was never used on a timeline before.
That being said, what is stopping the nazis from allowing Speer to rejoin the government, and pardoning the arrested nazis? The only thing that can prevent that is the US shooting them before retreating.
Going by the other threads on this subject, if worse comes to worse, Germany gets the Morgenthau treatment and is sent back to the Middle Ages.
History Learner
Banned
If they’d already been to sent to Spandau, the Soviets will make sure they don’t get out.
John Farson
Banned
Yeah. Considering the era, the US, British and French would have no qualms about utterly wrecking Germany as a nation to keep them down for good, never mind the Soviets and the 20 million+ dead they lost to the Germans.
History Learner
Banned
A thought: I wouldn't be surprised if Stalin comes to some sort of accord with the rump Nazi Germany.
IOTL, beyond the Stalin note (which was likely a trick), it does appear in 1947, 1949, and after Stalin's death during the early stages of Malenkov's rule, the Soviets were willing to alone with a neutral, independent Germany as a buffer between the two respective blocs. Further in this regard,
the Völkischer Beobachter, the official NSDAP party paper, was considered for revival by Stalin while the Socialist Reich Party, one of the earliest and most prominent Neo-Nazi entities in Post-War Germany, was backed by the Soviets. Given all of that, I could see Stalin seeing the utility of a reunited Germany under Nazi auspices given this background.
IOTL, beyond the Stalin note (which was likely a trick), it does appear in 1947, 1949, and after Stalin's death during the early stages of Malenkov's rule, the Soviets were willing to alone with a neutral, independent Germany as a buffer between the two respective blocs. Further in this regard,
the Völkischer Beobachter, the official NSDAP party paper, was considered for revival by Stalin while the Socialist Reich Party, one of the earliest and most prominent Neo-Nazi entities in Post-War Germany, was backed by the Soviets. Given all of that, I could see Stalin seeing the utility of a reunited Germany under Nazi auspices given this background.