Aftermath of an early 50's WWIII?

There won't be any Space Race. Without Sputnik, NASA might not exist (or it's formed later) and space travel is done solely by the USAF. Without the need for ICBMs, rockets would be much less powerful. Satellites would eventually be launched, probably no later than the seventies, because they are just so useful. Eventually, the USAF would launch astronauts into space and there might even be space stations, but there won't be a moon landing. OTL Apollo cost about $100 billion (adjusted for inflation). With no space race there is simply no incentive to spend vast sums of money on a moonshot.
I think the fact that the absence of a space race would apply to the lack of an arms race ITTL given that the cold war ended very early than it had and that military technology in general would be stunted to 1960's or 1970's levels. Come to think of it, in the Korean War both sides used WWII weapons to an extent (barring new tanks and jet fighters) and they would do the same in a WWIII, unless by the war's end new types of weaponry would be created (including armed helicopters and missile weapons).
 
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No, I think there would be a space program, for observing what had been the USSR, Warsaw Pact and Red China ASAP. Besides, Atlas was being developed, or as it was known then, the XB-65
 
No, I think there would be a space program, for observing what had been the USSR, Warsaw Pact and Red China ASAP. Besides, Atlas was being developed, or as it was known then, the XB-65
much agree, observation satellites, telecommunication and weather satellites will still be important. obviously The U2 program and other high altitude surveillance craft will proceed as well.

The other question will be the manned programs. obviously at some point in the 50's 60's someone will get into orbit, however I think you will see more focus on earth orbit. ( potential space stations and probes like in otl to investigate the solar system. )

New technology will be needed to deal with the disposal and rebuilding efforts in Europe.

I would think that there would be a 5-10ish year lag on most technology though, since there will be a much delayed german or Japanese miracle in this world there will be little competition to American hegemon around the world in economic and technologic matters, this could coupled with corporate influence retard the system to some degree.

Another effect might be to music with a full on war, many young men are going to go to war and not come back, this would also apply to sports greats as well.
 
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The Operation Dropshot planners expected most of Europe and the Mideast to fall to the USSR. They planned for a massive atomic strike to destroy Soviet industry and thus win the war. But the Smithsonian article states the Air Force was barely strong enough to fight in Korea. How well could the Air Force fight against the entire Soviet bloc? Shevek23's ideas on some sort of peace by exhaustion seem very likely.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Dropshot

http://www.allworldwars.com/Dropshot - American Plan for War with the Soviet Union 1957.html

Something else to consider - what happens to the various communist insurgencies around the world? The Malayan Emergency and the First Indochina war had already started. A communist insurgency in Burma was already well underway, and the communist party of Indonesia was one of the largest in the world. With soldiers needed to fight in Europe, would the UK and France essentially abandon their colonies to their own devices? With Chinese support, could Burma fall? Would the Indonesian communists try to take control? Would Sukarno try to seize Dutch New Guinea (or even Portuguese Timor or the British colonies and protectorates in Borneo)?

So what happens to Israel and the surrounding Arab nations once the USSR invades the northern ME? Who aligns with the west, and who aligns with the sovs?
 
I would think that there would be a 5-10ish year lag on most technology though, since there will be a much delayed german or Japanese miracle in this world there will be little competition to American hegemon around the world in economic and technologic matters, this could coupled with corporate influence retard the system to some degree.

Another effect might be to music with a full on war, many young men are going to go to war and not come back, this would also apply to sports greats as well.

Me, I think that tech in general would be at least one to two decades behind given the lack of a need to have tech boosted from the Cold War of OTL; with the Red bloc gone why bother inventing the same stuff as OTL outside of maintaining a one world order of sorts?

And as for music, I can imagine Elvis Presley being involved as a wartime signer of sorts; it's a no-brainer at this point.

So what happens to Israel and the surrounding Arab nations once the USSR invades the northern ME? Who aligns with the west, and who aligns with the sovs?

Israel would be neutral at first, Egypt would be pro-Soviet at the time and would happily join them in whopping the allies out of the middle east, the other countries would be for NATO, including Iran. I'm not sure about Pakistan and Afghanistan, though I can imagine the latter falling into Soviet occupation much earlier than OTL, which would lead to interesting results.
 
Me, I think that tech in general would be at least one to two decades behind given the lack of a need to have tech boosted from the Cold War of OTL; with the Red bloc gone why bother inventing the same stuff as OTL outside of maintaining a one world order of sorts?

And as for music, I can imagine Elvis Presley being involved as a wartime signer of sorts; it's a no-brainer at this point.



Israel would be neutral at first, Egypt would be pro-Soviet at the time and would happily join them in whopping the allies out of the middle east, the other countries would be for NATO, including Iran. I'm not sure about Pakistan and Afghanistan, though I can imagine the latter falling into Soviet occupation much earlier than OTL, which would lead to interesting results.

Egypt is still a monarchy at this time. Even if the 1952 Revolution occurs at the same time it did OTL, Egypt still probably won't join the side of the USSR. The Egyptian Free Officers were anti-British and anti-Zionist, but they were not communists. OTL Egypt only grew close to the USSR for reasons of realpolitik after the Suez Crisis. I don't think Egypt would join the war unless directly threatened though.

Also at this time the Kingdom of Afghanistan seemed to have had decent relations with the USSR. I don't think Stalin would invade Afghanistan, especially since Pakistan and India would probably remain neutral.
 
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Israel would be neutral at first, Egypt would be pro-Soviet at the time and would happily join them in whopping the allies out of the middle east, the other countries would be for NATO, including Iran. I'm not sure about Pakistan and Afghanistan, though I can imagine the latter falling into Soviet occupation much earlier than OTL, which would lead to interesting results.

So then Israel would have a pro-Soviet enemy to their south, and pro-NATO ones to their east and north? interesting. with egypt on their south and the red bear himself advancing out of the north, would Isreal end up fighting with NATO?
 
So then Israel would have a pro-Soviet enemy to their south, and pro-NATO ones to their east and north? interesting. with egypt on their south and the red bear himself advancing out of the north, would Isreal end up fighting with NATO?

Egypt wasn't a Soviet ally at this time, neither was Israel a NATO ally. Both countries will try to remain neutral, unless they are directly attacked by the USSR.
 
much agree, observation satellites, telecommunication and weather satellites will still be important. obviously The U2 program and other high altitude surveillance craft will proceed as well.

The other question will be the manned programs. obviously at some point in the 50's 60's someone will get into orbit, however I think you will see more focus on earth orbit. ( potential space stations and probes like in otl to investigate the solar system. )

New technology will be needed to deal with the disposal and rebuilding efforts in Europe.

I would think that there would be a 5-10ish year lag on most technology though, since there will be a much delayed german or Japanese miracle in this world there will be little competition to American hegemon around the world in economic and technologic matters, this could coupled with corporate influence retard the system to some degree.

Another effect might be to music with a full on war, many young men are going to go to war and not come back, this would also apply to sports greats as well.


Before WW2 commercial aviation was the leader in technology and I don't think Russia or Germany had anything to do with it. People wanted to fly more longer and faster. I doubt the military will be happy to see a commercial airliner passing there bombers and possably fighters.
 
I don't know how WWIII plays out, but with just the middle east oil production being destroyed, or under Soviet control, then perhaps the world moves more quickly to Ethanol?

As far as military tech, I don't see any downturn in the pace of development, unless we are positing the complete and total defeat of both the USSR and the PRC, to such an extent that they can never again rise to present a danger to the USA. In that unlikely event, then maybe, but much more likely, the USSR and PRC go all out to chtch up to the USA tech, and the USA is forced to go all out to attempt to stay ahead.
 
As far as military tech, I don't see any downturn in the pace of development, unless we are positing the complete and total defeat of both the USSR and the PRC, to such an extent that they can never again rise to present a danger to the USA. In that unlikely event, then maybe, but much more likely, the USSR and PRC go all out to chtch up to the USA tech, and the USA is forced to go all out to attempt to stay ahead.
I'm referring to the later scenario of total defeat of the communist bloc, of which would negate any need for a future arms race; barring of course weapons to deal with small scale threats ala the Vietnams and Afghanistans of OTL.
 
Weather and communications Satellites will still be done, but Atlas won't be top priority as an ICBM lofter: no need for that role anymore.

The 'Stage and a Half' Atlas lasted till 2003 for putting stuff in orbit.
I think Atlas would be the first Satellite launcher in 1960 or so for communications, as the Soviets would have targeted where the undersea cable repeater stations were.
1924SchreinerMap.jpg
 
What kind of firepower do the respective nation's armies have? I couldn't seem to find a 1950s OOB for the Sovs, and I'm too lazy to look for the NATO OOB :p
 
What kind of firepower do the respective nation's armies have? I couldn't seem to find a 1950s OOB for the Sovs, and I'm too lazy to look for the NATO OOB :p
Afaik, both sides had a mix of WWII leftovers and some new types for a potential new war, such as mbts and copters, not to mention that the Soviets had the AK-47 and RPG-2 in their arsenals by 1950. Partly the reason I like to speculate on this kind of WWIII is because of the fact that it may have been the only time outside of the late 40's where WWIII would still have the hardware of WWII for the most part, making the idea of it being a replay of WWII almost blatant.

And as for the OOB part, he only two sources I could find that come close to your criteria are these:
http://balagan.info/soviet-order-of-battle-and-doctrine-in-the-cold-war
http://www.militaryhistoryonline.com/20thcentury/articles/fuldagap.aspx

And I'm with you on that OOBs for the 50's outside of the Korean War are extremely hard to come by, so I figure it's best to reverse engineer the ones from the 80's if that would work.
 
Afaik, both sides had a mix of WWII leftovers and some new types for a potential new war, such as mbts and copters, not to mention that the Soviets had the AK-47 and RPG-2 in their arsenals by 1950. Partly the reason I like to speculate on this kind of WWIII is because of the fact that it may have been the only time outside of the late 40's where WWIII would still have the hardware of WWII for the most part, making the idea of it being a replay of WWII almost blatant.

And as for the OOB part, he only two sources I could find that come close to your criteria are these:
http://balagan.info/soviet-order-of-battle-and-doctrine-in-the-cold-war
http://www.militaryhistoryonline.com/20thcentury/articles/fuldagap.aspx

And I'm with you on that OOBs for the 50's outside of the Korean War are extremely hard to come by, so I figure it's best to reverse engineer the ones from the 80's if that would work.
With the Huey not available until 1956, would helicopters play a decisive role in WWIII? It looks like the US has around a thousand H-19 Hacksaws and the Sovs have the Mi-1. Not much in the way of troop transport compared to the Hueys and Hinds of the post-vietnam Cold War. I could see them being used for Recce/anti-armor, or medevac/supply like in Korea. Just not for large-scale, Vietnam-style troop movements
 
What Helicopter would do is replace gliders for airborn raids, with no more than a company of men at a time. If that is it's a protracted war lasting more than a month or two, which is something I very much doubt. Once the US starts using its atomic arsenal the Soviets would very quickly be unable to supply their forces at the front. They'd live off the conquered land for a while but in the end their position is untenable, even if they strip the occupied territories of every scrap of food and liter of fuel. When it runs out they're finished.
 
What Helicopter would do is replace gliders for airborn raids, with no more than a company of men at a time.
Me I just think that the concepts regarding attack roles that came in the form of various copters like the AH-64 and the Mi-24 would come a lot earlier than OTL.
 
Me I just think that the concepts regarding attack roles that came in the form of various copters like the AH-64 and the Mi-24 would come a lot earlier than OTL.
That's possibly true but until it's first tried with existing designs, dedicated gunships will be a non starter. What would happen first would be someone bolting a couple of bazookas to Bell 47s
 
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