After WWII you should divide Germany - but how?

Which one?

  • A

    Votes: 36 40.4%
  • B

    Votes: 4 4.5%
  • C

    Votes: 11 12.4%
  • D

    Votes: 30 33.7%
  • another (describe)

    Votes: 8 9.0%

  • Total voters
    89
Ok, let`s say, Nazi Germany did not massacre Poles and didn`t do any suffer to them - it just occupied Poland and installed a Germany-friendly government, so that there is no need to give land to Poland after Nazi Germany lost the war.


Which of these options would you prefer most, and why?
Green: British zone
Blue: US-American zone
Red: Soviet zone

(East Prussia becomes a (German-speaking) SSR within the Soviet Union)


EpjuIuc.png
 
C but with all of Schleswig-Holstein (plus Lübeck and Sachsen-Lauenburg) being part of the British zone, like in D (and OTL).
 
Actually the most fascinating thing about map D, is the North-South divide in Berlin, assuming that persists and Northern and Southern states site their capital there it would have huge ramifications for the future of the GDR.

Luath
 
The Soviets can have the USSR embassy, and the British can have the UK embassy. The U.S. can have the rest of Germany. :p
 
This is from an Outsider alternate-universe RP that I had helped create but petered out.

Here's the background:

Point of Divergence:


1943. Massacre of Kursk.

After a successful counterintelligence operation, the German Wehrmacht triumphs in Kursk. Inflicting grievous losses onto the Russian army. Hitler orders to push into Moscow and capture Stalin, but by the time they arrive, the capital has been relocated east to Novosibirsk.


The Miracle at Moscow.

The battered Russian Armed Forces miraculously delay the Wehrmacht long enough for most of Moscow's heavy industry to relocate east. Taking everything that can be unbolted and Sabotaging everything that can't be taken. The German Wehrmacht only finds hungry citizens and no supplies to take.

A few more victories later the worn Wehrmacht runs out of steam, and falters in sight of the Ural mountains. Hitler sues for a truce, but Stalin sees a victory in his grasp that only months before seemed untangeable. A long and hard war of attrition is fought between the two battered armies. The war on the eastern front would stretch into late 1946.

1944 and 1945:

The D-Day landings successfully take place, and the American army eventually take Bastonge. Fighting a long hard battle of the bulge, the German forces eventually force a standstill, halting the American advance for the rest of winter, and extending the western front well into 1946.

America defeats Japan and forces a surrender by using two nuclear bombs. Victory in the East day, or VE-day is declared.

1946: Götterdämmerung

The end is near for Hitler, and in desperation orders the construction of Diebner's fission/fusion hybrid nuclear bombs. Each having the yield of about half of the bomb that fell on Hiroshima, but taking up only little of the Germans meager stock of Uranium. After a successful field trail with a smaller bomb on the advancing Russian army, he orders a lone U-boat armed with a portable V2 rocket dragged behind it in a submersible silo to embark. The set of U-boat, Diebner Device and Rocket is called “Prufstand XII” and a second set, “Prufstand XIII” is captured in the port of Wilhelmshaven, recently readied to be launched at London. It is too late for New York, however. Against all odds the device hits dead center in Manhattan's Mid Town, killing 410,000 inhabitants in the first few days and 500,000 more in the next days.

The Empire State building collapses four days later from critical structural failure. The images of the burning husk become the most famous pictures of the war, after the Soviet flag waving on the Reichstag.


1946, continued.

The end of World War 2 leaves the western world in shambles. The Marshall plan is greatly reduced by the newly traumatized America, citing its restoring its own city as greater need then helping the people of Europe.

The Russians propose to split Germany in two parts, an eastern and western part, but the USA declines, instead granting its “half” to Denmark, The Netherlands, France, Czechoslovakia and Austria. Germany is, according to the leaders of Western Europe, to never become a nation state again.

Eastern Germany is added to “Poland”, and then abruptly annexed by the greater Soviet state.


Late 1940's:

America's public policy swings dramatically on the stance of nuclear weaponry, amounting to "We will stop further nuclear incidents from happening by making sure nobody will dare develop their own nuclear weapons." This paradoxical stance stems from their belief that only a country that has personally felt the horror of Nuclear Warfare can have the right to police their proliferation.

Naturally, The Soviets, now in possession of at least one captured Diebner Device, have no problems finishing their own nuclear research. America condones their actions, and warns that any use of nuclear weaponry will result in total American commitment to their removal by any means necessary.

The cold war starts in earnest.


Early 1950's

Russia and China reconcile in the face of increasing American belligerence, forming the Union State, a Union of the Soviet Union and the People's Republic. The Korean war is a complete disaster that nearly ends in a nuclear war. The only thing saving the world from imminent collapse is a full scale retreat by the United States and its allies, leaving the entire Korean peninsula under the yoke of communist aggression.


The Vietnam war fares better, and America wrestles half of the country from Communist control in spite of massive human rights violations by both sides. South Vietnam would become an important Western ally as time progressed. But though the war is a moderate success, the opinion of the people was never heard. A storm of discontent is brewing.


Early 1960's

The Cuban/Venezuelan Missile Crisis takes place. Both countries are found to harbor long range strategic missiles that can hit nearly all of the United States of America. Swift military action is taken during the Bay of Pigs invasion, but is ultimately a failure. As John F. Kennedy works with Soviet leader Khrushchev, the word comes closer then ever to complete destruction. At multiple moments during the tense negotiations, the only thing keeping the world from ending is the refusal of brave American and Soviet citizens to push their buttons. Cuba is made to removes their missiles, but Venezuela, a communist state, does not for years to come. When it eventually folds as well, the west gives up its missiles in Turkey.

The world sighs in relief, and the doomsday clock, that was one half of a minute to twelve, is set back for the first time in years.

It would not last.


Late 1970's: The Kuril standoff

After a relatively long time with only light frictions, the Soviet Union State lands on the Kurile islands of japan, using the old mantra that living somewhere makes it yours. An army regiment disguised as civilians sneak onto the Kuriles overnight and start up soviet “communities”. The West is not amused. The Union State admits its mistake, and sends an extraction force to evacuate their men. A gunner on the frigate USS Brooke opens fire when he notices the evacuation ships are loaded with men. In the resulting conflict, tactical nuclear weapons are used, though the exact number of explosions is known (three), it is not known which side blinked first. Both claim the other side fired first.

In eastern Russia, an automated defense system detects the radiation, and phones the Kremlin. The phone line, being in a serious state of disrepair, cannot find a connection. Assuming Moscow has already been leveled, the system begins a launch sequence for four mult-warhead ICBM's. The world escapes destruction by the skin of its teeth once more when all but one are canceled by human interaction at the very last seconds. A fourth is de-activated in flight by a recall mechanism before American radar systems pick it up. It splashes harmlessly into a deep sea area but it is later revealed that not all Soviet ICBM's had this measure that day, and the fate of the world was, once again, purely decided by the luck of the draw.

Soon forgotten after the crisis, the Kurile islands are still scarred to this day, and still face an ecological crisis.

The following years see incredible public outrage in western countries. Many political critics start a countdown. Revolution is imminent.

Late 1970's: Ronald Reagan's Federal Party
A split in the Republican party leads to the creation of a third: The Federal party, with famous actor Ronald Reagan as its leader. As the remaining Republicans swing hard right, the moderate Federal party wins by a record landslide. Ronald cites disarmament and higher levels of control between the East and West. The stability he promises remains just that, but as he takes office it becomes clear that he is a capable and charismatic ruler, after thirty years of fear mongery, The citizens of the USA begin to look towards a future without fear of nuclear holocaust. Riots and Civil Disobedience are down 300% in the coming years. Nearly at the same time, Gorbachev takes de facto lead of the Soviet Union.

One of the first things Reagan does when he takes the presidency is instead of focusing on the cold war, he accelerates the still going space race in the USA's favor, pouring massive amounts of funding away from perceived as useless defense projects, and investing into space exploration, extending the Apollo program, and expanding Skylab to multiple times its intended size. The general populace does considers this peaceful exploration of the universe as a step forward for the human race, and is mildly popular.

A side effect of this is that the initially back-burned Star Wars program comes to the forefront, much to the chagrin of the Soviet union. Whether or not the system actually works is unknown, but the Soviet Union cite that Space should belong to no country, and be a weapon-free zone, cheerfully ignoring the 20mm station-board cannon on the Mir.

Regardless, tensions never reach previous heights, and eventually treaties are signed to decrease the amount of Nuclear weapons on the planet. No satellite weapon systems are ever mentioned, and are implied to be handled behind closed doors.

1946desat.png
 
I would - if Germany was to be divided - restore, roughly at least, the 1871 situation:

Baden, Württemberg and Bavaria in the south (Hohenzollern goes to Württemberg). Restore Bavarian Palatinate.

Hesse-Nassau includes the remaining OTL Rheinland-Pfalz, and a Free City of Frankfurt is separate under the Paulskirchenverfassung.

Westphalia is independent, as are Schaumburg-Lippe and Hannover (including all of Niedersachsen that is not in the New Hanse).

Bremen, Oldenburg, Kiel, Hamburg, Lübeck, Rostock, Wismar, and maybe Emden form a "New Hanseatic League".

Schleswig-Holstein goes to Denmark.

Prussia (including OTL Saxony-Anhalt) becomes a commie puppet regime: Prussian Democratic Republic.

And Thuringia and Saxony become the true Weimar Republic, a Swiss-like eternally neutral regime. This could also include the Sudetenland.
 

Wallet

Banned
A because that makes the smallest society occupied zone and less people under a communist dictatorship
 
This is from an Outsider alternate-universe RP that I had helped create but petered out.

Here's the background:

Point of Divergence:


1943. Massacre of Kursk.

After a successful counterintelligence operation, the German Wehrmacht triumphs in Kursk. Inflicting grievous losses onto the Russian army. Hitler orders to push into Moscow and capture Stalin, but by the time they arrive, the capital has been relocated east to Novosibirsk.


The Miracle at Moscow.

The battered Russian Armed Forces miraculously delay the Wehrmacht long enough for most of Moscow's heavy industry to relocate east. Taking everything that can be unbolted and Sabotaging everything that can't be taken. The German Wehrmacht only finds hungry citizens and no supplies to take.

A few more victories later the worn Wehrmacht runs out of steam, and falters in sight of the Ural mountains. Hitler sues for a truce, but Stalin sees a victory in his grasp that only months before seemed untangeable. A long and hard war of attrition is fought between the two battered armies. The war on the eastern front would stretch into late 1946.

1944 and 1945:

The D-Day landings successfully take place, and the American army eventually take Bastonge. Fighting a long hard battle of the bulge, the German forces eventually force a standstill, halting the American advance for the rest of winter, and extending the western front well into 1946.

America defeats Japan and forces a surrender by using two nuclear bombs. Victory in the East day, or VE-day is declared.

1946: Götterdämmerung

The end is near for Hitler, and in desperation orders the construction of Diebner's fission/fusion hybrid nuclear bombs. Each having the yield of about half of the bomb that fell on Hiroshima, but taking up only little of the Germans meager stock of Uranium. After a successful field trail with a smaller bomb on the advancing Russian army, he orders a lone U-boat armed with a portable V2 rocket dragged behind it in a submersible silo to embark. The set of U-boat, Diebner Device and Rocket is called “Prufstand XII” and a second set, “Prufstand XIII” is captured in the port of Wilhelmshaven, recently readied to be launched at London. It is too late for New York, however. Against all odds the device hits dead center in Manhattan's Mid Town, killing 410,000 inhabitants in the first few days and 500,000 more in the next days.

The Empire State building collapses four days later from critical structural failure. The images of the burning husk become the most famous pictures of the war, after the Soviet flag waving on the Reichstag.


1946, continued.

The end of World War 2 leaves the western world in shambles. The Marshall plan is greatly reduced by the newly traumatized America, citing its restoring its own city as greater need then helping the people of Europe.

The Russians propose to split Germany in two parts, an eastern and western part, but the USA declines, instead granting its “half” to Denmark, The Netherlands, France, Czechoslovakia and Austria. Germany is, according to the leaders of Western Europe, to never become a nation state again.

Eastern Germany is added to “Poland”, and then abruptly annexed by the greater Soviet state.


Late 1940's:

America's public policy swings dramatically on the stance of nuclear weaponry, amounting to "We will stop further nuclear incidents from happening by making sure nobody will dare develop their own nuclear weapons." This paradoxical stance stems from their belief that only a country that has personally felt the horror of Nuclear Warfare can have the right to police their proliferation.

Naturally, The Soviets, now in possession of at least one captured Diebner Device, have no problems finishing their own nuclear research. America condones their actions, and warns that any use of nuclear weaponry will result in total American commitment to their removal by any means necessary.

The cold war starts in earnest.


Early 1950's

Russia and China reconcile in the face of increasing American belligerence, forming the Union State, a Union of the Soviet Union and the People's Republic. The Korean war is a complete disaster that nearly ends in a nuclear war. The only thing saving the world from imminent collapse is a full scale retreat by the United States and its allies, leaving the entire Korean peninsula under the yoke of communist aggression.


The Vietnam war fares better, and America wrestles half of the country from Communist control in spite of massive human rights violations by both sides. South Vietnam would become an important Western ally as time progressed. But though the war is a moderate success, the opinion of the people was never heard. A storm of discontent is brewing.


Early 1960's

The Cuban/Venezuelan Missile Crisis takes place. Both countries are found to harbor long range strategic missiles that can hit nearly all of the United States of America. Swift military action is taken during the Bay of Pigs invasion, but is ultimately a failure. As John F. Kennedy works with Soviet leader Khrushchev, the word comes closer then ever to complete destruction. At multiple moments during the tense negotiations, the only thing keeping the world from ending is the refusal of brave American and Soviet citizens to push their buttons. Cuba is made to removes their missiles, but Venezuela, a communist state, does not for years to come. When it eventually folds as well, the west gives up its missiles in Turkey.

The world sighs in relief, and the doomsday clock, that was one half of a minute to twelve, is set back for the first time in years.

It would not last.


Late 1970's: The Kuril standoff

After a relatively long time with only light frictions, the Soviet Union State lands on the Kurile islands of japan, using the old mantra that living somewhere makes it yours. An army regiment disguised as civilians sneak onto the Kuriles overnight and start up soviet “communities”. The West is not amused. The Union State admits its mistake, and sends an extraction force to evacuate their men. A gunner on the frigate USS Brooke opens fire when he notices the evacuation ships are loaded with men. In the resulting conflict, tactical nuclear weapons are used, though the exact number of explosions is known (three), it is not known which side blinked first. Both claim the other side fired first.

In eastern Russia, an automated defense system detects the radiation, and phones the Kremlin. The phone line, being in a serious state of disrepair, cannot find a connection. Assuming Moscow has already been leveled, the system begins a launch sequence for four mult-warhead ICBM's. The world escapes destruction by the skin of its teeth once more when all but one are canceled by human interaction at the very last seconds. A fourth is de-activated in flight by a recall mechanism before American radar systems pick it up. It splashes harmlessly into a deep sea area but it is later revealed that not all Soviet ICBM's had this measure that day, and the fate of the world was, once again, purely decided by the luck of the draw.

Soon forgotten after the crisis, the Kurile islands are still scarred to this day, and still face an ecological crisis.

The following years see incredible public outrage in western countries. Many political critics start a countdown. Revolution is imminent.

Late 1970's: Ronald Reagan's Federal Party
A split in the Republican party leads to the creation of a third: The Federal party, with famous actor Ronald Reagan as its leader. As the remaining Republicans swing hard right, the moderate Federal party wins by a record landslide. Ronald cites disarmament and higher levels of control between the East and West. The stability he promises remains just that, but as he takes office it becomes clear that he is a capable and charismatic ruler, after thirty years of fear mongery, The citizens of the USA begin to look towards a future without fear of nuclear holocaust. Riots and Civil Disobedience are down 300% in the coming years. Nearly at the same time, Gorbachev takes de facto lead of the Soviet Union.

One of the first things Reagan does when he takes the presidency is instead of focusing on the cold war, he accelerates the still going space race in the USA's favor, pouring massive amounts of funding away from perceived as useless defense projects, and investing into space exploration, extending the Apollo program, and expanding Skylab to multiple times its intended size. The general populace does considers this peaceful exploration of the universe as a step forward for the human race, and is mildly popular.

A side effect of this is that the initially back-burned Star Wars program comes to the forefront, much to the chagrin of the Soviet union. Whether or not the system actually works is unknown, but the Soviet Union cite that Space should belong to no country, and be a weapon-free zone, cheerfully ignoring the 20mm station-board cannon on the Mir.

Regardless, tensions never reach previous heights, and eventually treaties are signed to decrease the amount of Nuclear weapons on the planet. No satellite weapon systems are ever mentioned, and are implied to be handled behind closed doors.

1946desat.png

So....

How is what used to be Germany in each part of it?

Is they a EU? UN?

How is the US by 2016?

USSR break up in 91 OTL?

How is Japan and China?
 
I picked "another" since well it's best to break up Germany into as much smaller states as possible to prevent a third case of German aggression, at least speaking from an Allied perspective.
 
The alternate *Marshall Plan divided Germany between neighboring countries in an attempt to forever quash German aggression.

Unfortunately we were never able to answer any of those questions; the RP started in 1986 and went nowhere fast. :(

How... German are each of those areas?

I see. How sad. Seem like a very good world.
 
C but with all of Schleswig-Holstein (plus Lübeck and Sachsen-Lauenburg) being part of the British zone, like in D (and OTL).
Just for aesthetic reasons and because it seems like the most territoriality-even division, I agree with this. I'm not sure if the Americans should get a North Sea port (like Bremen IOTL) as well though?
 
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