After the BoF and BoB: options for the Luftwaffe

Let's say that, after the victory against France and strategic defeat vs. UK, someone more capable is setaed to run the Luftwaffe, and has good ties with the RLM and above. What would've been his steps to improve on both short- and long-term schedual? Some of the lessons learned during 1940 might include:
- there is no such thing as too much aircraft, too much of trained & capable men, too much of fuel
- no such thing as too good performance, firepower, range/radius
- fast(er) fighters and bombers are more survivable than the slow(er) ones
- bigger bombers carry more bombs vs. range per HP installed and per pilots trained

Short term, for this thread,wouldve mean something that will yield results before 1942, long term means it will deliver someting before 1944.
 
First thing is to restart the 4 engine bomber program, and get rid of the stupid requirement that all bombers be capable of dive bombing. Next no pause in Jet development. Build a proper integrated air defence network and a true night fighter force. Training, Training and ever more training for all personnel from the rawest recruit to the highest ranking officers.
 
As everyone expected a short war all new aircraft development was ordered suspended in 1940-41, a HUGE mistake to say the least. This can't happen.

Udet has to go and be replaced with someone with vision, use him to test fly prototypes and visit factories.

More trained pilots and more transports, it took Stalingrad to make this lesson sink home.

More fuel will be needed, make sure supplies won't be interrupted.

Resources are scarce, much inter-service planning needed to make sure everyone has what they need. This includes keeping numbers of new prototypes down in order to standardize production.
 

Deleted member 1487

Udet has to go and be replaced with someone with vision, use him to test fly prototypes and visit factories.
Just don't replace Wilhelm Wimmer in the Technical Branch with Udet and don't drop Milch from much of his role after the death of Wever.
Really just don't have Wever die in that stupid flight accident in 1936 and a huge part of the pre-war problems of the Luftwaffe don't develop.
 
Continue funding for research and development and test-flying prototypes. Hopefully even failed prototypes teach a few lessons.
Limit numbers of less successful prototypes.

Better funding for jet engine development earlier. More kerosene-burning jet fighters would free up gasoline supplies for transports and bombers.
Build Ju 252 in significant numbers.
Develop Low Altitude Parachute Extraction System to resupply ground troops. LAPES means less time exposed to enemy AAA.
More LW paratroopers would be a convenient excuse for more transport planes.
More SS paratroopers would force LW to build more transport airplanes ...... or would the SS develop its own Air Force?

Better radar earlier on.

More (ground bound) flight simulators (e.g. Link Trainers).

Follow Willy Messerschmitt's (109) lead in simplifying and adding lightness to production. Speaking of Me 109s ..... Order Messerschmitt to begin developing its successor earlier. Wide-stance landing gear, followed by tricycle hear, Malcolm hoods followed by 3/4 bubble canopies, laminar wings, Merridith radiators, etc.
Develop anti-knock sensors and link them to ignition timing and fuel injectors.
 
The ME-109 replacement needs a more range and a larger ammo load. Those two limitations really hurt the Luftwaffe over Russia and against the allied bomber offensive
 
LW war time problems with crew training has to be based on the prewar training system aimed at 20,000 pilots per year. To significantly expand this would require many more trainers and many more pilot trainers.

Were are these to come from? More training air craft is not a problem but the fuel would have to come from somewhere?

Does any one know how many flight trainers the LW needed at the start of the war?

If it is based on 20,000 pilots @ 340 flying hours per pilot , that's broadly speaking 6.8 million flying hours per year ...maybe 3000 pilot trainers?
 
Were are these to come from? More training air craft is not a problem but the fuel would have to come from somewhere?
Basic flight can be taught on gliders so fuel can be saved there. You only need a winch or giant elastic band. If nothing else it allows you to weed out those who just haven't got the aptitude early on, without expending a great deal of petrol on them.
 
...

If it is based on 20,000 pilots @ 340 flying hours per pilot , that's broadly speaking 6.8 million flying hours per year ...maybe 3000 pilot trainers?

Ellis in 'Brute Force' describes how school flight training hours were reduced below 300 hours in 1942, then again in 1943. Fuel constrictions mandated this. By the end of 1943 German fighter pilots were being sent into combat with 170 or fewer hours. Conversely US fighter pilots arrived at their squadrons with 300+ hrs & RAF with 340 hours by early 1944. Wing & Group commanders were mandating additional training hours by the unit veterans
 

Deleted member 1487

Ellis in 'Brute Force' describes how school flight training hours were reduced below 300 hours in 1942, then again in 1943. Fuel constrictions mandated this. By the end of 1943 German fighter pilots were being sent into combat with 170 or fewer hours. Conversely US fighter pilots arrived at their squadrons with 300+ hrs & RAF with 340 hours by early 1944. Wing & Group commanders were mandating additional training hours by the unit veterans
Benefit of having unlimited fuel.
 
Really just don't have Wever die in that stupid flight accident in 1936 and a huge part of the pre-war problems of the Luftwaffe don't develop.

I was surprised to learn that the entire heavy bomber program died before Wever did, due to lack of a suitable engine. But if Wever doesn't die then there's a far better chance the program gets reborn earlier and the He-177 never gets built...
 

Deleted member 1487

I was surprised to learn that the entire heavy bomber program died before Wever did, due to lack of a suitable engine. But if Wever doesn't die then there's a far better chance the program gets reborn earlier and the He-177 never gets built...
What? The heavy bomber program did not die before Wever. The Ural Bomber Program did because the designs were badly compromised by the weak engines of the era they had to be designed around. Wever ordered a few dozen for testing and issued the spec for the Bomber A/He177 program. He came up with the He177 but died shortly after starting the program, which was then continued by his staff even after Udet replaced Wimmer. Then when Udet got involved in 1938 things went real bad.
 
According the ARMING THE LUFTWAFFE the whole program was put on hold due to the fact that both the Do-19 and Ju-89 were badly under-powered. The plan was to resurrect the program when more powerful engines became available. "Die" was a poor word choice on my part, sorry...
 

Deleted member 1487

According the ARMING THE LUFTWAFFE the whole program was put on hold due to the fact that both the Do-19 and Ju-89 were badly under-powered. The plan was to resurrect the program when more powerful engines became available. "Die" was a poor word choice on my part, sorry...
ER Hooton's "Phoenix Triumphant" talks about the situation in depth and the reality was that the Ural Bomber Program resulted in only flawed designs that even Wever thought were better to be abandoned, so he issued the Bomber A spec before his death, which was designed around better engines available in 1936. Also the He177 book by Griehl gets into that as well. The Ural Bomber Program was dead as of June 1936 except for test models for training. Eventually the Ju89 was developed into the Ju90 and 290 but by the time the adaptations were done they were basically totally different aircraft with years of development and required BMW801 engines.
 
I really need to reread PHOENIX TRIUMPHANT, it's been a long time and it's gathering dust on my bookshelf...
 
I'M not altogether convinced this training was limited mostly by fuel. The average number of trainer aircraft in 1942 was 280 at any given time and ~ 8900 crew were trained. In 1943 the number of trainers stabilised at 275, while the total trained crew was increased to over 17,000.

How could they do this - unless the training hours were cut in half. Each trainer has only so many hours in each day to train. Further the number of trainer aircraft doubled from 1078 in 1942 to 2274 in 1943. If we include the average training hours per pilot that Carl quotes we get...

1942 ~ 8900 x 300= 2,671,000 flying hours
1943 ~ 17000 x 170= 2,890,000 flying hours.

Does this sounds to close too be a coincidence?
 
Building a cheap dedicated trainer using a lot on non-strategic materials with a fuel efficient engine would help flight training.
Just don't let Willy Messerschmitt to design it.
 
in the timeframe mentioned it seems converting a large percent of their gliders to powered flight would have been a good move using captured French engines. sacrifice the HS-129, that alone would allow for 800+ Gotha GO-244 to be powered (and they might have served as trainer aircraft also?)

would not say they needed MORE of the huge ME-323 but they needed them earlier, the beginning of Barbarossa.

so that would be overall project that creates force of 1,000 transports from existing engines and airframes.

IMO they could have scrapped HE-177 project, used the donor DB engines elsewhere and fabricated 100s of the HE-111 Zwilling for recon/maritime bomber (and transport) and been at least as well off?

along same lines build Zwilling version of BF-109 instead of the ME-410 and/or ME-262 (the twin fuselage BF-109 projected to top 450 mph)

again (IMO) use the nascent jet program to power V-1 and Mistels, if they progressed enough build single jet aircraft along lines of HE-162.
 

Deleted member 1487

Building a cheap dedicated trainer using a lot on non-strategic materials with a fuel efficient engine would help flight training.
Just don't let Willy Messerschmitt to design it.
I don't know how much more cheap and fuel efficient you suggest that they get than the OTL units. They did basic training with gliders and then had small fuel efficient powered trainers:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gotha_Go_145

At some point you need to do advanced training on operational aircraft with veteran instruction.
 
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