After Actium: Two Caesars Are Not Enough

Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: Before 1900' started by Velasco, Jan 5, 2012.

  1. jkarr Well-Known Member

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    So basically....Livia has managed to the get the East (or at least large chunks of it ) kinda under, nominally, her family's thumb, whilst sidelining Isidrious....gonna be fun times ahead XD
     
  2. Emperor Constantine 21st century Monarchist

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    Another great chapter! So we're seeing some shakeups in the Imperial Household and the provinces. Kind of ironic that Isidorus heads to the West while Tiberius is heading to the East. Can't imagine Cleopatra is at all thrilled about that. And a new Ptolemy-Cesear begins his own rise as well. I wonder if Caesar Gaius will be more competent then his brother. Also a few questions: How old are Cleopatra and Berenice Caesaris at this point? And what happened to Babylon and the Mesopotamian provinces? I know that they were made client Kingdoms but I can't remember their current status.
     
  3. St. Just Angel of Death

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    Great update! I also want to know more about the Celts-in-Babylon.
     
  4. Velasco As High as Honour

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    Exactly! :D
    The Balkans, Greece and western Turkey are under Tiberius control.
    The military command in Galatia is held by Plautius Silvanus, whose mother is Livia's best friend Urgulania.
    Livia's nephew Volusius Saturninus is the tutor of the young Caesar.
    Lucius Paullus is in the middle - he's brother-in-law of Isidorus but just married the daughter of Fabius Maximus (a former lieutenant of Tiberius) and Marcia (Livia's friend).
    The major hold out against Claudian authority is Cleopatra's kingdom (Egypt and environs, including some Med. islands).

    Thank you!

    Gaius has been less exposed to the influences of the East and grown up in the shadow of highly competent or at least highly ambitious older siblings (Ptolemy, Isidorus, Tiberius and Drusus) as well as his mother's disgrace (adultery, exile, death). His biggest claim to fame is being the first prince to be Julian on both sides: grandson of Julius Caesar on the father's side and grandson of Octavian on the other. If he's clever and the occasion permits, being the grandson and heir of Octavian could be very useful to him.

    Cleopatra is almost seventy. Berenike is seventeen and her intended husband Antony Alexas is sixteen.

    There's between two big shake ups in Mesopotamia:

    Caesarion in 14BC created the provinces of Mesopotamia and Assyria. He created the client-kingdom of Babylon for his son Philip but gave the kingdoms of Sophene (to Commagene), Gordyene (to Adiabene) and Hatra/Araba (to Edessa/Osrhoene) to client-kings he could trust. Preference was for bigger client-kingdoms ruled by loyal, grateful supplicants than smaller polities who might sell out to the Parthians at the first chance.

    Isidorus in 2BC added the province of Assyria to the kingdom of Adiabene, making Mesopotamia the most eastern Roman province. It's far smaller than the historical province of Mesopotamia and sandwiched inbetween the kingdoms of Osrhoene, Adiabene and Babylon. It's more of a military outpost to keep order in the region and ensure the steady flow of trade from the Persian Gulf to Syria and the Mediterranean. Roman forts and roads increasingly present in the region.

    You've also got the client-kingdom of Characene on the Persian Gulf. When Isidorus visited in 2BC the usurper Theonesios II was brutally put to death and the Rome-approved, Rome-raised Abinergaos plopped on the throne.

    North of Characene you have the client-kingdom of Babylon, ruled by Philip (Philippus) Caesaris. He was knocked off the throne by the Galatians but restored by his brother Isidorus: he has no power and real government is in the hands of Bagabartes, a priest-administrator-nobleman whose daughter Philip was forced to marry. Babylon and Characene are pretty much independent but are expected to side with Rome if things ever get ugly/accept Roman interference etc.

    The Kings of Adiabene and Osrhoene both converted to Judaism, a hold-over from Asinai and Anilai's brief successes during the Parthian civil war. When Persia-Parthia went Irano-Buddhist these kingdoms received a major influx of Jews who were kicked out.

    Thank you! They were kicked out by a mutual agreement between Isidorus and Alexander Helios, as their leader had kidnapped/raped/"married" Alexander's daughter. Alexander received them and settled them in his kingdom in return for military service.
     
  5. Cuāuhtemōc Instagram Fiend

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    Should we expect some hijinks from the Germanic tribes? I feel something might end up happening from the part of Germania run by the Vandals, nothing too serious mind you, but still a threat and an affront to Roman authority.

    I just want to see Caesarion cracking some heads open in his latter years of life.
     
  6. Velasco As High as Honour

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    Oh we'll definitely be seeing more action on that front: in addition to the German tribes settled in Roman territory (or under a loose Roman protectorate) you have the development of the client-kingdom of Batavia and of the Limes Sarmaticus - smaller than the previous border on the Rhine but even further from the capital and without a Gaul behind it. I can forewarn you now that there will be a rival-Emperor based in Germania in the not too distant future.

    I need to look it up but it's been a bit since Caesarion has marched against an enemy - off the top of my head I'm not remembering any major campaigns since the conquest of Arabia (9BC). It'd take something special to jilt him into action, so we'll see.
     
  7. Velasco As High as Honour

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    Chapter CVI: Ulixes Stolatus

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    Livia Drusilla and Imperator Caesar Augustus Invictus Optimus Maximus, better known as Caesarion

    The sovereignty of the Roman State was vested in the two annually elected consuls. If one died or resigned, a suffectus was voted in to replace him. Collegiality served as a prevention against tyranny. These consuls later served the state as pronconsuls governing Roman provinces abroad, a practice which continued into the triumviral period and the Empire. The Roman constitution allowed for extraordinary commissions and grants of unfettered power when the occasion required, which it increasingly did as the age of the Caesars dawned.

    The geographical core of the Roman Empire remained in the hands of the Senate, who provided Italy and adjacent provinces and islands with governors - proconsuls, propraetors and proquaestors - in the traditional way. The rest of the Empire was divided into two administrative categories: the Imperial province, in which the Emperor August had unrestricted legal and military power, and client-kingdoms, where native rulers ruled under the protection of Rome (or "by the gift of the Roman people"), under the obligation of providing military assistance when called upon. These categories overlapped as the Emperor dethroned troublesome client kings, variously adding their kingdoms to his province or appointing client-kings who answered directly to him.

    In reality the Emperor August's authority over Rome, the Senate and senatorial provinces was equal to that he enjoyed throughout the rest of the Empire. As the richest and most powerful man in Rome and the only source of patronage capable of giving young Roman nobleman adequate military experience the Emperor August enjoyed unprecedented authority over the Senate body. This was legitimized in part by the creation of a special magistracy entrusting him with the physical well-being of the city and people of Rome: he was also exempted from the traditional constraints placed on the authority of generals and administrators. This supreme military and legal authority was conflated with the exercise of state religion, in which he received cult as the Divus Invictus - Unconquered God. His father and mother also received worship as divine figures associated with his own divinity: he was thus positioned as the very personification of the Roman military and as the supra-human protector of the common weal of Rome and Romans. In comparison the "sovereignty" of the consuls meant very little.

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    From the first Caesarion was reluctant to rule alone, having neither the energy to do so nor the hubris to ignore the nature of his own father's death. His step-brothers Marcus Antonius Antyllus and Iullus Antonius were replaced by his step-sons, Tiberius (who became a Caesar by adoption) and Drusus. These men's military and senatorial careers were yoked to the Emperor's chariot: they ruled sub-divisions of the Imperial province and lead his legions to victory in his name. The Emperor alone had de facto control of all political offices and military commands in the Roman State: the highest were filled by these intimates (those connected to him by marriage and blood), who in turn advanced their own connections into subordinate roles.

    The sheer volume of work and trouble inherent to the government of so vast an Empire necessitated the existence of such trusted middle-men, who ruled several countries at a time on his behalf. These men enjoyed immense personal power but had limited influence over the Emperor and his policies. This was the prerogative of the two formidable women in his life - his mother, Queen Cleopatra VII of Egypt, and fourth wife, Livia Drusilla.

    They were, independently, the two richest women in the Empire. As patrons their careers developed with some parallel, Livia enjoying greater influence in Rome and the west and her mother-in-law exercising a putative supremacy over the Greek world as Queen of Kings and Isis incarnate. Cleopatra was richer of the two and enjoyed greater freedom of political movement as a widow. Livia benefited from her own connections among the Senatorial elite and the successes of her two sons - the xenophobia of the Roman aristocracy and the ill-fated careers of her children Ptolemy Philadelphus and Cleopatra Selene hampered Cleopatra somewhat.

    In the aftermath of the Secular Games Cleopatra felt personally affronted by Livia's increasing interference in eastern matters: her response was to block attempts to recall her rival's disgraced daughter from exile. She would not even countenance the mitigation of the sentence of exile to relegatio ("eviction", which was not permanent). Livia was now old and no longer shared her husband's bed: she served him as a personal secretary and intermediate in all Roman affairs, a position she exploited to the full. The small council of senators chosen to serve him as advisors on state matters hung on her every word. She could not, however, navigate the debauched waters of his bacchanalic inner circle as well as her rival could, and this the Egyptian Queen exploited shamelessly.

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    Tensions escalated. As Livia worked on detaching Caesar Isidorus from his grandmother, Cleopatra set off East. In Athens she upstaged Tiberius in every imaginable way: the Athenians naturally received the almost mythical Queen with greater excitement than the staidest of Caesars and his prematurely solemn wife. She brought in her train a most inconvenient guest - Pulcher Julianus[1] - the disliked elder son of Tiberius who had been adopted out in order to remove him from the succession. His wife was a granddaughter of Mark Antony. The two were paraded about as Imperial scions together with Cleopatra's chosen heirs, Berenike Caesaris and Antonius Alexas (Antony Alexander), also grandchildren of Antony, a connection which endeared them at once to the Athenians. Whatever Livia could do for Isidorus in the west, Cleopatra was more than capable to replicate for others in the east.

    Tiberius infinite reluctance to accept extraordinary honours gave Cleopatra the window she wanted. The city received her with divine honors under the cult name Cleopatra Thea Eueteria[2] and added the name of Euetereia to the year's Panathenaic Games. She was made priestess of Demeter, in which capacity she would personify the goddess during the sacred pageant of the Eleusinian Mysteries. Her four proteges were made citizens of the city and initiated in the Lesser Mysteries (celebrated in February). The five of them received crowns, which they dedicated to Athena, and public statues. Julianus was elected as the year's Archon Basileus ('king magistrate') so that he might preside over the Greater Eleusinian Mysteries in the fall. Cleopatra bestowed an endowment upon the city's gymnasium so that she, Berenike and Antony Alexas might be acclaimed as perpetual gymnasiarchs; Julianus and Alexas were also named strategoi - the two generals in command of the city's military. The Athenians no doubt imagined such honors for his son would be pleasing to Tiberius, but Cleopatra knew better. Perhaps egged on by Livia Tiberius accepted limited honors for himself and his family - citizenship, civic crowns and his own election as eponymous archon for the coming year.

    Following the celebration of the Greater Mysteries Cleopatra and her party passed over into Asia. A summons for Julianus from Rome was summarily ignored. From Mytilene to Pergamum to Smyrna to Ephesus Julianus and his wife Fulvia Antonia were presented to the eastern elite as Imperial princelets deserving of honor on level with Cleopatra and her two heirs. Without Cleopatra he and Fulvia proceeded to Eumeneia-Fulviapolis in Phyrgia; the city had been so renamed in her grandmother's honor and gladly welcomed the two as euergetai ('benefactors').

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    Cleopatra had not come to Asia merely to annoy Livia by promoting an undesired princeling. The death of her daughter-in-law Orodaltis had left a power vacuum in the region: Orodaltis had served as regent and senior co-ruler over three realms - Comana, Cappadocia and Sophene - which were now left in the hands of inexperienced, juvenile monarchs. As it happened, Cleopatra was the grandmother of these monarchs and had the eldest of them - Antony Alexas of Comana - in her custody.

    The general Plautius Silvanus was busy pursuing the barbarian tribes into their hill-top hiding places in an effort to restore order. The son of Livia's closest friend, he made for a natural enemy to Cleopatra. Allying herself to the ever present Fortunatus, king of Cilicia Trachea, Cleopatra seized custody of the boy-kings Ariarathes of Sophene and Archelaus of Cappadocia and threatened war with the Isaurian and Galatian tribes Plautius was pursuing. For Cleopatra's protection the tribal chiefs delivered to her the Roman prisoners they had captured and three Roman standards Plautius had lost to them. Plautius' campaign thus crashed to a halt: he and his men now found themselves deprived - robbed - of the prospect of victory and vengeance, achievable only by the recapture of the lost standards.

    Cleopatra was not finished. Meeting Plautius she saluted his officers as an imperator would: she paid his tired troops and had the legions acclaim Julianus and Alexas as victorious generals. On the brink of mutiny Plautius was left little scope for action; indeed, he encouraged his troops and welcomed Cleopatra warmly. Whatever arrangement he had been hoping for with the great Queen, he soon despaired when he found that she had sent Julianus and Alexas onward to Antioch with the standards, freed Roman prisoners and hostages given to her by the Galatian and Isaurian chiefs. Though Furius Camillus was a friend of Tiberius, Plautius had treated him with disdain: the president of the Council of Asia thus relished the opportunity to receive Cleopatra and shame Plautius.

    The Council and city received Julianus and Alexas as triumphant generals: the standards were presented to Dea Roma and the Divine Julius and laudatory inscriptions and statues commissioned. Camillus did more than just humour Cleopatra, who had followed the boys with a great entourage to Antioch. Julianus was dispatched to Rome with two standards and a hearty recommendation from the Council of Asia. The boy Archelaus was removed from the throne of Cappadocia and replaced with her grandson Ariarathes-Nikomedes (now Ariarathes XI), hitherto merely King of the smaller adjacent realm of Sophene. Archelaus was also unceremoniously deprived of his young wife, Cleopatra[3]. The Egyptian Queen's ally Deiotaurus III Philadelphus[4], King of Paphlagonia, received this girl in marriage and authority over Galatia (or at least, to subdue Galatia) at the same time. Cleopatra had already conferred another granddaughter, Mithridatis, upon the loyal dynast Tarcondimotus Philopator II of Anazarbos[5]: Camillus happily obliged her by addressing Tarcondimotus as rex and expanding his territory. Fortunatus was also rewarded with some of Archelaus' old territory bordering Lycaonia. Archelaus of Cappadocia and Amyntas of Galatia (son of the previous king, Artemidorus) remained in Cleopatra's possession; the other hostages obtained were later sent by Camillus to Deiotaurus.

    The suicide of Plautius was the natural end to this uncomfortable episode.

    Her political muscles appropriately flexed, Cleopatra received her grandson Gaius Caesar on his return from Armenia, where he had set the loyal Ariobarzanes of Media atop the empty throne. Gaius and Cleopatra were virtual strangers, but as with Isidorus before him, he readily perceived in his grandmother the easiest chance for ready finances which would permit him a freer hand undertaking the military exploits he so desperately desired. He ratified her (technically Camillus') reorganization of Asia Minor's affairs and took to ignoring his tutor Volusius Saturninus (the friend and kinsman of Tiberius) entirely. In exchange for gold to pay and recruit troops with which he might campaign gloriously the coming spring, he gladly sent away his Roman wife[6] and sealed his alliance with his grandmother by consorting with her heiress Berenike.

    Warmly received in Rome, Julianus was elected as the consular colleague of Gaius for 3AD.

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    Berenike Caesaris and her half-brother, Gaius Caesar

    Notes:
    [1] Drusus Claudius Pulcher Julianus. Born Drusus Claudius Nero, he became Drusus Julius Caesar when the Emperor adopted his father. To remove him from the Caesarean succession he was adopted by a cousin, Claudius Pulcher, changing his name for a third time.
    [2] A cult named of Demeter meaning the "beneficient" or "bountiful" - the bringer of prosperity.
    [3] Daughter of Ptolemy Philadelphus, King of Galatia and Paphlagonia, and Orodaltis of Comana. A useful marriage uniting the native dynasty with the Ptolemaic "newcomer" and his Mithridatid wife.
    [4] Son of Castor Saocondarius "Philorhomaios" (died 37BC), King of Galatia and Paphlagonia in Mark Antony's service, and Adobogiona, daughter of King Deiotaurus I.
    [5] His grandfather Tarcondimotus I Philantonios ("the Antony-loving") died at Actium fighting for Mark Antony. Anazarba or Anazarbos was the capital of the Tarcondimotid realm in eastern Cilicia, comprising also Mount Amanos and the Pyramos basin.
    [6] Calpurnia Macedonica, the maternal half-sister of Caesar Isidorus.
     
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  8. Jonathan Edelstein Rooted Cosmopolitan

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    Rule One: Don't mess with Cleo.
     
  9. St. Just Angel of Death

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    Ah, to see the affairs of Roma reduced to a geopolitical catfight! Rooting for Cleo, because Livia esse delendam.
     
  10. Emperor Constantine 21st century Monarchist

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    Love it! Livia's learning the hard way not to challenge the Queen of Kings and goddess incarnate. So will Gaius Caesar be replacing Antonius Alexas as co-heir of Egypt?
     
  11. Velasco As High as Honour

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    Right?! I've been neglecting her capabilities far too long, so her final stretch has to be extra special.

    :D :D :D

    I'm glad! The Gaius-Berenike thing is a temporary, unofficial thing, but it does relegate Alexas to the side as something of an inconvenience for however long it goes on....As it stands Berenike is the one associated with Cleopatra on the throne as basilissa: Alexas doesn't have any official position in Egypt, although marriage to Berenike clearly marks out Cleopatra's intention for him and he'll likely be made crown prince as soon as he steps foot in the kingdom. As the older and more established of the two we might well see Berenike in the position of senior ruler and Alexas in a junior, subordinate role of consort when the time comes.
     
  12. Velasco As High as Honour

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    Chapter CVII: Anno Horribilis

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    At the end of AD3, Cleopatra VII, the Father-loving and Manifest Country-loving Goddess, acclaimed Sospita and Nea Isis, Queen and Mother of Kings, died outside Raphia at the age of 74. As a friend and ally of the Roman people she ruled over Egypt and Cyprus and exercized suzerainty over Kush and Nabataea. In a looser sense she was seen as the head of the Greek world, the mistress, mother and protectrix of Asia. From Germania to Tibet she was revered in her own right and as the mother of the children she bore.

    The reasons given by contemporaries for her expiration - the loss of this many legions or the death of this many grandsons - do not seem, in hindsight, to amount to enough to have laid the incarnate Isis low.

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    Gaius Caesar had not remained long in Antioch, exchanging the comforts of the city for the scorching sands of seditious Nubia and Arabia. He deposited his brother and sister, the King and Queen of Nabataea, in Damascus, and entrusted a legion to Fortunatus, who had set himself up in Petra. Ever since the brief Roman conquest of the spice-trading kingdoms of south Arabia the client-kingdom of Nabataea had been locked in constant warfare against rival desert tribes in the north and a coalition of tribes led by the sheikh Goiasos in the south. Though the primary endeavour of these tribesmen was to dislocate the Nabataeans from Saba, the remaining outpost of the Roman conquest, their raids at times penetrated deep into Nabatea proper, imperiling even Petra itself.

    Gaius had intended to resolve the matter of Arabia first, but was apparently frightened by reports that his brother Isidorus was coming east to inflict the long-awaited punishment of the Kushites of Meroe. He therefore abandoned Fortunatus and descended into Egypt. In the disastrous campaign that followed two legions were lost to disease, dehydration and the armies of Candace: Gaius himself was captured by her armies and shut up in her capital.

    Syria and the other eastern legions had been left in the hands of Furius Camillus. Recalled to Rome in 1AD on charges of corruption, he had returned early the following year, having used his fortune wisely in order to secure his acquittal. He was not prepared for what was about to hit him.

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    From the East came the Parthian King of Kings, Alexander II Seleucus, at the head of a great horde sweeping across the Zagros into Mesopotamia. His numbers were supplemented by Scythian and Galatian mercenaries and Gondophares, a vassal of Sapadbizes who had carved out a principality of his own along the border with Parthia. The Babylonians capitulated almost at once and the Adiabenians were slaughtered: he crushed the army of Ariobarzanes of Armenia on the banks of the Masius and marched on Edessa in the desert. With ease he coaxed the Edessans into joining his army; together they marched into Syria. Samosata fell to him, and with it its king Mithridates III (his uncle[1]). While Gondophares swept behind him pacifying the defeated territories, Alexander made a beeline for Cleopatra across the Euphrates.

    False information fed Camillus by the Edessans allowed Alexander Seleucus to trap the Romans in unfavourable terrain and crush them in brutal massacre. Cleopatra met Alexander outside the gates of Antioch: her intercession prevented the sack of the city. She exchanged her liberty for that of her granddaughter, Berenike the basilissa, who was heavy with child: Berenike was thus left behind in Antioch while Cleopatra and the other dignitaries with her joined the Parthian host on campaign. Alexander Seleucus was well aware of the symbolic value of his grandmother and treated her well. Accordingly Damascus threw its gates open to him and the Judaean tetrarchs offered no opposition to the advancing army.

    The Parthians had not set out to conquer, but to raid: to strike a decisive blow against Roman pride. Alexander Seleucus wavered along the way - drunk on his own success, he came to see the campaign as an opportunity to restore the Persian empire of old. With his grandmother there to add legitimacy to his undertakings, he would take Egypt with all of its grain and wealth - and thereafter brace himself for the coming wave of retaliation from Rome. His grandiose projects of empire building were scuppered by a small Roman force which he found holed up in Raphia, under the command of his grandmother's lieutenant Cornelius Dolabella. Dolabella would not treat with him and made a preemptive attack upon the Parthian force, which now found itself weighed down with booty and prisoners of war in unfamiliar territory. Parthian garrisons were set up in Damascus and Jerusalem: Gondophares was sent out to take Petra and a fourth squadron, commanded by Combolomarix[2], crossed over into Egypt.

    It was in such confusion that the great queen expired. Tired from the march she suffered a stroke, progressively losing her senses and finding it difficult to move or communicate. Contemporaries suspected poison, but Alexander Seleucus had little reason to want her dead. His despair manifested itself as brutality - he slew his cousin, Philip of Babylon with his bare hands - Roman sources said as an example to his officers who had shown untoward deference to one bearing the name of Caesar. It is more likely he was merely removing a potential dynastic rival from his camp - Philip was a young king of similar age, the son of Caesarion the conqueror of the east, and briefly the husband of a Parthian princess. Cleopatra's death would weaken Alexander Seleucus' position and hurt his chances at snagging either Egypt or the loyalty of the various petty kingdoms of the east. The presence of similarly-bred princes did not help his chances. At this time he also cut down the high priest Hyrcanus when the latter opposed the offering of joint sacrifices to Isis and Yahweh in the Jerusalem temple.

    Cleopatra lived long enough to learn of the execution of another grandson - Julius Horigenes, otherwise Harmose-Meryese, the High Priest of Alexandria and all Egypt, treacherously slain by Combolomarix - and the birth of Berenike’s child, a daughter, proclaimed Cleopatra Nea (“Cleopatra the younger”, literally “the new Cleopatra”). She also lived long enough to see Alexander Seleucus’ campaign begin to crumble: Combolomarix returned with a depleted force and Gondophares was unable to remove Fortunatus from Petra. From Antioch Berenike had sent out word convoking the Roman client-kings of Asia to amass together a great army: Caesar Tiberius was racing east to meet Alexander Seleucus on the battlefield and the consul Julianus had already sailed to protect the precious grain of Egypt. In the midst of this whirlwind Cleopatra breathed her last.

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    The siege of Raphia was abandoned: Alexander Seleucus withdrew northward, deciding instead to take Antioch. Berenike came out to his encounter, offering herself to him in marriage: as her dowry the famous Antiochene Guard. This guard generally attended the Emperor August, who had appointed them to accompany Gaius eastward: Gaius in turn had left them behind to protect his unborn bastard. Gondophares and Combolomarix having abandoned his cause and made their own way home, Alexander Seleucus had little choice but to accept. With Berenike proudly displayed as the chief prize in a vast train of loot and prisoners, Alexander withdrew back across the Euphrates, where, at not yet thirty years of age, he was slain in his marriage bed. With the help of the Antiochene Guard Berenike stole back to Antioch while the Parthians scurried back east, taking with them the child-king Alexander III Eupator. They were waylaid by Ariobarzanes of Armenia, who sought to avenge the death of his own son by drowning Eupator in the Masius river but abandoned the project in order to rescue the great queen's corpse.

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    Cleopatra in the guise of Juno Sospita, the preserver of the Res Publica

    Notes:
    [1] Widower of his aunt, Cleopatra Selene.
    [2] Chief of the Galatians deported to Babylon and from there expelled into Parthia, also husband of the princess Agathokleia, sister of King Alexander Seleucus.
     
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  13. Emperor Constantine 21st century Monarchist

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    Wow, the Queen-goddess of the East is dead. :( In a way its an unfitting end for the great Cleopatra. But Berenike is already proving herself her grandmother's heiress. I wonder if the now Berenike V will be able to become as powerful as Cleopatra or end up being yet another client Queen.
     
  14. Cuāuhtemōc Instagram Fiend

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    It's kinda sad to see Cleopatra but you know compared to her life IOTL cut short by having an asp bite on her breast, she has lived a far grander life than what most women in that time-period could boast about. She lives on in Caesarion and her many, many grandchildren - especially Berenike who seems to have taken into her gran-momma's old ways. :D

    Gaius Caesar is nothing like his father, captured by the enemy, Nubians especially.

    Shite has gotten real. Seleucus' down. Who will succeed him?
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2014
  15. Grouchio Well-Known Member

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    I really need a Family tree of Cleopatra's line now.
     
  16. St. Just Angel of Death

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    Update and intrigue! The great Seleucus cut down by sly Berenice! Ptolemaic-"Seleucid" conflict culminating at Raphia once more! Livia esse delendam!
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2014
  17. SlyDessertFox Joe Kennedy III 2028!! Donor

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    It's sad to see Cleopatra go, but as others have mentioned, her legacy will be competently continued by the savvy Berenike. Great updates, and I agree with Tsar Gringo: Livia esse delendam!
     
  18. Jonathan Edelstein Rooted Cosmopolitan

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    I assume Livia's mourning will be highly insincere, and that she'll now try to undo all the humiliations Cleopatra inflicted on her faction. And while Berenike is indeed an able and ruthless successor, she may be too focused on the East to care about power plays in Rome.

    I guess it will all come down to how Caesarion reacts - will he become even more dependent on Livia now that Cleopatra is dead, or will realize that Livia stepping into the power vacuum is a threat to his dynasty?
     
  19. Grouchio Well-Known Member

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    I wonder if we can get ourselves a story only thread as well...
     
  20. Zireael Well-Known Member

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    So do I.

    And why couldn't Cleo go with an asp bite or something instead of a heat stroke?