Yeah, I agree.


Yeah, but how would the country be convinced. But yeah, African socialists not really caring about capitalism or are willing to go to a capitalist stage is an understatement, but understandable since all African nations were really served with an extractive, resource and raw materials based economy that is expropriated to European nations in the trillions of dollars, in the 70 trillions range.

I don't blame African leaders for wanting to skip to a communal/cooperative economy, I understand why. But I am also curious to ask, what happened in Botswana? Did the supra-national African socialist state have relations with Seretse Khama of Botswana? Also, what happened to the actual Tito of Yugoslavia? Did Stalin kill him before Tito had the chance to send him the "note"?


I am not asking to revert/shut-down the story. I am not sure how agriculture would be like after this with all this resistance. Will a surplus happen enough to feed people, or will it follow the Soviet Union and Yugoslavia in asking for grain? Will private owned plots happen like Yugoslavia?


Makes sense. But at least the Malian government is not making the mistake the Soviets are doing by necessary, they had to grow an agricultural and light industrial strong base before jumping to manufacturing and heavy industry.

So the promise of worker self-management would not be as fully realized as Yugoslavia? Hmmm.... also, we could see some problems with the model, "bite the Malians", I think it's the whole "social ownership/social property" problem of everyone owning production, but no one really owns it type of thing? Well at least Malians will get the consistent and diverse food and final consumer products, and more food security than even Yugoslavia or the Eastern Bloc, Soviet and China under Mao, North Vietnam.
So workers self management and all actual market socialist ideas won’t come about into full fruition for at least another 30 years, that is when you’ll see the actual democratization of labor, actual agricultural cooperatives ran by the farms, worker councils running the government. The Sankarist Revolution that will happen sooner or later will be the actual path that diverts Mali down to Council Communist areas. In relations to agriculture Mali will be struggling to actually build a diverse and supportive base for quite awhile until the government implements its system completely, and the advent of the green revolution.

Tito will still exist i am not butterflying him away, and soon we will see how Mali chooses to interact with the other African nations that will soon be coming into its own.
 
So workers self management and all actual market socialist ideas won’t come about into full fruition for at least another 30 years, that is when you’ll see the actual democratization of labor, actual agricultural cooperatives ran by the farms, worker councils running the government. The Sankarist Revolution that will happen sooner or later will be the actual path that diverts Mali down to Council Communist areas. In relations to agriculture Mali will be struggling to actually build a diverse and supportive base for quite awhile until the government implements its system completely, and the advent of the green revolution.

Tito will still exist i am not butterflying him away, and soon we will see how Mali chooses to interact with the other African nations that will soon be coming into its own.
Oh. Well, I apologize for my previous comments, it was rude, I am actually liking your timeline. So Senghor is doing some usual Senghorism. Well, I am going to be eager to see how all of these internal developments will come out of it (maybe Milovan Djilas escaped prison with his notebook manuscripts political writings), and how the big nation will interact in foreign affairs, I think there will be a definitely a stronger base in the Non-Aligned Movement, and a quicker end of colonialism in Africa, apartheid and probably independence of Algeria.
 
Oh. Well, I apologize for my previous comments, it was rude, I am actually liking your timeline. So Senghor is doing some usual Senghorism. Well, I am going to be eager to see how all of these internal developments will come out of it (maybe Milovan Djilas escaped prison with his notebook manuscripts political writings), and how the big nation will interact in foreign affairs, I think there will be a definitely a stronger base in the Non-Aligned Movement, and a quicker end of colonialism in Africa, apartheid and probably independence of Algeria.
It’s alright no offense taken, I’m glad to clear up anything.
 
It’s alright no offense taken, I’m glad to clear up anything.
Great.

What will happen to Mehdi Ben Barka? Will he avoid the OTL fate of assassination by Hassan II? And Frantz Fanon? I hope both figures survive, and maybe Amilcar Cabral?
 
Great.

What will happen to Mehdi Ben Barka? Will he avoid the OTL fate of assassination by Hassan II? And Frantz Fanon? I hope both figures survive, and maybe Amilcar Cabral?
Barka will probably flee Morocco still and end up receiving a lot of support from Mali. You can definitely expect Democratic Socialism/Libertarian Socialism/Council Communism to all be a strong undercurrent in Arab and African socialism later down the line. Fanon will probably survive his cancer and go on to be a strong political actor within West/North Africa. Finally, I really like Cabral and there’s no doubt being so close to Mali that he wouldn’t receive massive political support, and military support where possible.
 
You can definitely expect Democratic Socialism/Libertarian Socialism/Council Communism to all be a strong undercurrent in Arab and African socialism later down the line.
Okay, this is my speculations:

HADITU won't survive in Egypt, Henri Curiel would probably turn Council Communist and fight harder instead of just being exiled out of Egypt, and stopping the splintering and splitting of the Egyptian Left in the face of pan-Arabism, Arab socialism and Nasserism.

For Tunisia, I don't know, all I know that Habib Bourguiba was a weird ruler. But there could be a vibrant left among the peasantry and labourers who resist government compulsory organized "cooperatives".

Algeria: Hocine Aït Ahmed as the democratic socialist Socialist Forces Front would survive and rebel against Ahmed Ben Bella's government (and Boumediene and the Trotskyist Michel Pablo) and want political pluralism of socialism to rule Algeria. And he won't stand alone with Muhammad Boudiaf and the supra-national African socialist state (Big Mali?), and emerge victorious in protecting the free development and independence of autogestion (Algerian self-management), reversing the bureaucratization and institutionalization of it (preventing a bureaucratic collectivism), while stopping the privilege and a sense of elitism. Public ownership, but management, running factories/capital assets and control is vested to the workers who self-manage (James Meades' topsy-turvy nationalization).
 
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Part 4: 1957-1960
Part 4: 1957-1960


A Three Year Plan, The First Decade of Malian Independence Comes to a Close, Independence Fire Rages Across Africa

For many years people had predicted the end of the French Colonial Empire, the victory of Mali, galvanized France to try and hold onto colonies in Indochina. This only made the loss even larger when at the Battle of Dien Bien Phu in 1954, with the French army being battered and pushed out by Northern Vietnamese forces. As France’s colonial ventures had twice seemingly ended in complete failure, first West Africa, and now Indochina.

The French government at home was faced by a plague of issues. Draft riots, and unpopularity in these costly continued colonial wars caused Joseph Lanier to resign in disgrace with no obvious replacement. Finally, a general strike ground the French economy to an absolute halt. As France faced governing, social, and economic crisis anti-colonialist movements moved to strike.

The Algerian Front de Libération Nationale or FLN, the Mouvement National Algérien or MNA, and finally the Parti Communiste Algérien coming together in open Revolution against the French authorities. The Algerian War (1954-1960) would single the death knell for not only the French Empire, but the 4th Republic as well.

In response to this collapsing state of affairs, Morocco, Tunisia, and Guinea would declare full independence from France in 1958. The French government would give little response as most of its forces were tied up in Algeria. Though, the collapsing government had begun negotiating with Algerian rebels to get their demands, and possibly work out a deal. This would be unacceptable for the French Military whom had been faced with loss after loss, and continued humiliation politically as the government placed blame on high command, and discussed cutting funding. West Africa, Indochina, the Suez, and now Algeria a secret group of authoritarian-leaning French officers and politicians called the Organisation Armée Secrète. The OAS would carry out numerous bombings, assassination attempts, and even a mutiny in Algiers that would collapse the entirety of the Fourth Republic. Charles De Gaulle would return in prominence to power as President in August of 1957, and would announce in 1959 the intention of his government to pull out of Algiers. In 1960 Officers and Generals in Algeria would attempt a Putsch against President De Gaulle and force the government in Paris to double its efforts to save Algeria, Morocco, Tunisia and Guinea. Finally, in 1960 Mauritania under the leadership of Moktar Ould Daddah would declare its independence from France. The coup would be quashed and its leadership arrested by forces loyal to Paris, and France would officially sign a treaty exiting from Algeria, and Africa completely, with Equatorial Africa exiting French colonial control.

Where was Mali in all of this? The Malian government adopted a policy of politically and superficially supporting communist rebels in Algeria. They would help provide intelligence on French tactics, and minor equipment support, yet Mali did not provide more. Partially out of obligation to its treaties with France, partially out of America asking Mali to not over-involve, and, and lastly the Malians were more tangled up in the continuation of the Cooperativization or agriculture and industry, and the unrest that had followed it.

The major fronts of resistance were SR Azawad and Casamance. The Fula, and Jola people in the area had proved especially resilient to the attempts by Mali to institute universal language use, illiteracy liquidation centers, and cooperativized agriculture and industry. The Tuaregs of Azawad and Aïr also had proven incredibly hesitant with only a fraction settling down and settling in to these new roles. Senghor would go light handed to Azawad meeting Tuareg leaders and trusted tribal elders like Intalla ag Attaher, and Ibrahim ibn 'Umaru. The meeting taking place in Gao would see Senghor concede in granting protections to nomadic herders and traders, while also reducing taxation upon their sales finally, their leaders would integrated into the communist party. The Tuaregs would also receive protections in their languages, and personal autonomy. In return the Tuaregs would help with the cooperativization and socialization of society and economics.

Casamance would be different. Malian soldiers descended upon Ziguinchor. Local leadership was rounded up and those that could pose a threat to the governing administration disappeared from the area. This period would begin a 2 year long occupation by Malian forces in the Casamance Conflict. Thousands would be arrested, hundred would be killed or exiled.
Another diplomatic accomplishment would be opening a conference between Britain and Mali in 1958. With the collapsing state of the British Empire, and it’s holdings, the British were more amendable to discussing the future of The Gambia, and its possibility of it joining Mali. Even with the British distaste for socialism, and Mali, it still desired a strong non-aligned Soviet state. It was believed that if Mali could lead African socialism away from aligning itself to soviet interests, and remain friendly to the West then it would be better than antagonizing Senghor. The Banjul Conference would see a detailed plan to make The Gambia a confederated state part of the Malian Federation. The Gambia would be allowed a protected language, state militia, and local parliament. It was a bitter pill for Senghor, and The Gambia as well. While it would provide added security and protection for The Gambia it would become apart of the Socialist Mali in everything but name. Local elections saw the popular Gambian Socialist Front gain 1/3rd of the votes, it was expected as their power increased the closer Gambia would come to being a full SR.

On a smaller note, electrification would begin in the major cities of Mali, as well as the construction of the first planned city of Ouagadougou which would be constructed with mud brick apartments, communalized courtyard apartments, and industry attached to the city. Receiving massive government support the city would be an example of what socialism in Africa could be. Literacy rates also received a bump in increase from 25-30 up to 45-50% in some areas. All of this increase came with the backfire of more demanding access to politics and right to democratic process.
 
Title: African Yugoslavia
Tags: Africa does better

Ok OP, which is it?

Or is it going to do ok for long enough that people will be nostalgic for it once it blows up?

Not bashing the premise or what you've written so far, I just wouldn't normally use Yugoslavia as a metaphor for success XD
 
The Tuareg will not be pacified by anything short of war in the long run, they have to be defeated. I don't see the point in protecting their language specifically if Wolof and the likes aren't since eliminating tribal languages is impossible and likely not the goal. Mande, being the lingua franca of much of West Africa, will simply formalize the facts on the ground and replace French in official capacity. Also what of their practice of slavery, is that included in personal autonomy?

first planned city of Ouagadougou which would be constructed with mud brick apartments, communalized courtyard apartments,
Ouagadougou being the focus of the government is a great symbolic move, it being the birthplace of the Empire of Ghana. Hopefully they stick to modernized Malian architecture.

The Gambia's integration could serve as a model for Ethiopia to follow in Eritrea. Mali being communist will likely see it become a subject of studied by the Eritrean Liberation Movement
 
Title: African Yugoslavia
Tags: Africa does better

Ok OP, which is it?

Or is it going to do ok for long enough that people will be nostalgic for it once it blows up?

Not bashing the premise or what you've written so far, I just wouldn't normally use Yugoslavia as a metaphor for success XD
It’s mainly a reference to the economic system that will be adopted by Mali at the start. It’s merely a comparison.
 
The Tuareg will not be pacified by anything short of war in the long run, they have to be defeated. I don't see the point in protecting their language specifically if Wolof and the likes aren't since eliminating tribal languages is impossible and likely not the goal. Mande, being the lingua franca of much of West Africa, will simply formalize the facts on the ground and replace French in official capacity. Also what of their practice of slavery, it that included in personal autonomy?


Ouagadougou being the focus of the government is a great symbolic move, it being the birthplace of the Empire of Ghana. Hopefully they stick to modernized Malian architecture.

The Gambia's integration could serve as a model for Ethiopia to follow in Eritrea. Mali being communist will likely see it become a subject of studied by the Eritrean Liberation Movement
The Tuareg issue is merely being pacified at the moment, with the issue of Casamance, the Malian government would rather deal with one issue at a time. Mande will see a major adoption in major cities, formal education, and business, much how Swahili was used in Tanzania. The Tuaregs will be dealt with in time.
 
The Gambia settlement is going to complicate things in Casamance - the people there will want to know why Gambia got autonomy at the treaty table while they are being occupied for wanting the same thing. They might even get support in other parts of Mali - the differential treatment will look like hypocrisy to a lot of people.

What I really want to know about is Senegal other than Casamance, though. It's a key part of the federation, and half its people (including the most educated and urbanized) speak Wolof rather than a Mande language. I can't see them willingly accepting Standard Mande, and since they are so much of the civil service and the educated class, they could do a lot of damage if they're pushed. Senghor won't want this to be a controversy, and again, they'll wonder why Gambia is getting language and cultural rights and they aren't.

In most of the rest of the federation, I do see Standard Mande working out, at least in the short term, as a diglossia similar to modern Arabic - there's the standard form used in the media, government offices, and education, and the local languages/dialects used at home and in everyday speech. The two might meet at some points, e.g., when someone goes to a government office in Bamako, the signs and forms will be in Standard Mande but the clerk will speak Bambara. Some pragmatic acceptance of this on the government's part would go a long way toward reconciling the public.

Also, how is the federation handling religion? The country is majority-Muslim, but it has a substantial Christian minority and some of the most prominent leaders - Senghor, for instance - are Catholic. There is also a strong overlay of traditional religion - I believe it's an Ivoirien proverb that "we are 50 percent Muslim, 50 percent Christian and 100 percent animist." And socialist doctrine will pull the government toward official atheism. I'd imagine that there will be a great deal of official tolerance, but will atheism be a formal government policy, and/or will the government try to create socialist schools of Islam and Christianity as the USSR did from 1917 through the early 30s? A figure similar to Mukhlisa Bubi, if one exists, could play an interesting role.

Ouagadougou already existed, so I'm assuming that the planned city is a "New Ouagadougou" in the style of New Delhi?
 
The Gambia settlement is going to complicate things in Casamance - the people there will want to know why Gambia got autonomy at the treaty table while they are being occupied for wanting the same thing. They might even get support in other parts of Mali - the differential treatment will look like hypocrisy to a lot of people.

What I really want to know about is Senegal other than Casamance, though. It's a key part of the federation, and half its people (including the most educated and urbanized) speak Wolof rather than a Mande language. I can't see them willingly accepting Standard Mande, and since they are so much of the civil service and the educated class, they could do a lot of damage if they're pushed. Senghor won't want this to be a controversy, and again, they'll wonder why Gambia is getting language and cultural rights and they aren't.

In most of the rest of the federation, I do see Standard Mande working out, at least in the short term, as a diglossia similar to modern Arabic - there's the standard form used in the media, government offices, and education, and the local languages/dialects used at home and in everyday speech. The two might meet at some points, e.g., when someone goes to a government office in Bamako, the signs and forms will be in Standard Mande but the clerk will speak Bambara. Some pragmatic acceptance of this on the government's part would go a long way toward reconciling the public.

Also, how is the federation handling religion? The country is majority-Muslim, but it has a substantial Christian minority and some of the most prominent leaders - Senghor, for instance - are Catholic. There is also a strong overlay of traditional religion - I believe it's an Ivoirien proverb that "we are 50 percent Muslim, 50 percent Christian and 100 percent animist." And socialist doctrine will pull the government toward official atheism. I'd imagine that there will be a great deal of official tolerance, but will atheism be a formal government policy, and/or will the government try to create socialist schools of Islam and Christianity as the USSR did from 1917 through the early 30s? A figure similar to Mukhlisa Bubi, if one exists, could play an interesting role.

Ouagadougou already existed, so I'm assuming that the planned city is a "New Ouagadougou" in the style of New Delhi?
i wouldnt make any assumptions what my characters want, Gambia is a different issue, and Casamance will continue to be occupied and purged until it falls back under government control. This government isn’t long lasting anyways the Triumvirate is brutal and pushing development.

Mande is the long term plan and it’ll probably be common for most Malians to be bilingual, or even trilingual in some areas.

Religiously, there will be official state atheism at the time but as time has gone on but probably around the Sankarist era you’ll see some form of religious socialism grow in popularity, as the long term goal of African socialism is the imbuing of Socialism in governmental politics.
 
i wouldnt make any assumptions what my characters want, Gambia is a different issue, and Casamance will continue to be occupied and purged until it falls back under government control. This government isn’t long lasting anyways the Triumvirate is brutal and pushing development.

Mande is the long term plan and it’ll probably be common for most Malians to be bilingual, or even trilingual in some areas.

Religiously, there will be official state atheism at the time but as time has gone on but probably around the Sankarist era you’ll see some form of religious socialism grow in popularity, as the long term goal of African socialism is the imbuing of Socialism in governmental politics.
I certainly don't want to make assumptions about your characters. I imagine that the Triumvirate will be seen by historians as having a very mixed record.

Looking forward to Sankara's role in this story - he's a fascinating and, IMO, admirable (albeit flawed) character.
 
I certainly don't want to make assumptions about your characters. I imagine that the Triumvirate will be seen by historians as having a very mixed record.

Looking forward to Sankara's role in this story - he's a fascinating and, IMO, admirable (albeit flawed) character.
mm I guess I didn’t mean to say don’t assume, but, just don’t expect every thing that they do to be the greatest, I already had to shave off some negative aspects to make them work together without ruining the federation, their brutality in keeping it together will be somewhere akin to Tito.

Sankara will do some very questionable things but overall he’ll leave Mali in a far better place than any other leader.
 
Why is he a fascinating and admirable character, in your opinion? I am just curious.
He achieved great reduction in rural poverty as well as broadly based educational and social progress without adopting IMF prescriptions. He was a dictator (which is the "albeit flawed" part) but a better one than most - he was genuinely committed to the betterment of the country rather than filling his pockets, and he did make life better for many of the country's poor.

I feel about him much as I do about Nyerere - I admire the good he did while recognizing that he also did many wrongs.
 
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The Gambia settlement is going to complicate things in Casamance - the people there will want to know why Gambia got autonomy at the treaty table while they are being occupied for wanting the same thing. They might even get support in other parts of Mali - the differential treatment will look like hypocrisy to a lot of people.

What I really want to know about is Senegal other than Casamance, though. It's a key part of the federation, and half its people (including the most educated and urbanized) speak Wolof rather than a Mande language. I can't see them willingly accepting Standard Mande, and since they are so much of the civil service and the educated class, they could do a lot of damage if they're pushed. Senghor won't want this to be a controversy, and again, they'll wonder why Gambia is getting language and cultural rights and they aren't.

In most of the rest of the federation, I do see Standard Mande working out, at least in the short term, as a diglossia similar to modern Arabic - there's the standard form used in the media, government offices, and education, and the local languages/dialects used at home and in everyday speech. The two might meet at some points, e.g., when someone goes to a government office in Bamako, the signs and forms will be in Standard Mande but the clerk will speak Bambara. Some pragmatic acceptance of this on the government's part would go a long way toward reconciling the public.

Also, how is the federation handling religion? The country is majority-Muslim, but it has a substantial Christian minority and some of the most prominent leaders - Senghor, for instance - are Catholic. There is also a strong overlay of traditional religion - I believe it's an Ivoirien proverb that "we are 50 percent Muslim, 50 percent Christian and 100 percent animist." And socialist doctrine will pull the government toward official atheism. I'd imagine that there will be a great deal of official tolerance, but will atheism be a formal government policy, and/or will the government try to create socialist schools of Islam and Christianity as the USSR did from 1917 through the early 30s? A figure similar to Mukhlisa Bubi, if one exists, could play an interesting role.

Ouagadougou already existed, so I'm assuming that the planned city is a "New Ouagadougou" in the style of New Delhi?
I'd assume a more hands off approach would be necessary. It'd also fit with the Yugoslavia analogy. I wonder if there will be an equivalent to Tito's brief attempt to get the Croatian Catholic Church to break away from Rome. Might actually succeed if it's tried after Vatican II.
 
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