African American Nation Possibility Check

Was there ever a realistic possibility that a nation come to existence, where the primary ethnicity was African American and if so when and how?

Starting point is post-Columbus.
 

GdwnsnHo

Banned
I think your most important question is what is "African-American", because you may be overlooking Liberia, and Haiti.

Now if you want one in the Americas? My recommendation is be willing to adopt all people in the Americas decended from Africans - and build a Caribbean Nation. Emancipation from the states, leading to emigration to Cuba, Jamaica, Hispaniola - and creating a united African-American culture and state.

Another possibility is to have as many African American families leave for Hispaniola, but the men stay and try and find the best work they can - sending everything else back to Hispaniola, until it is a better place to live than the US. The added wealth and demographics should enable a stronger state there, that could begin to dominate the Caribbean.

In short, you aren't going to get it on the US mainland, or anywhere on the American mainland either. Cuba could be interesting, but you'd need to flood the demographics with African Americans, and I'm unsure of the numbers.

Leaving Hispaniola. Build it, make it strong, and have it dominate the Caribbean, and ally with the USA to try and take Cuba. The extra territory would certainly strengthen the new state. Assuming it can keep the Cubans under control.
 
I did not know that about Haiti. My focus was on the mainland, but the Caribbean would be easier.

Could there have been more than one? I understand that there were several salve rebellions in the Caribbean islands.

Is it not possible for group of slaves to escape into the Wilderness of America in the 16th century and establish a nation near the west coast?
 
Is it not possible for group of slaves to escape into the Wilderness of America in the 16th century and establish a nation near the west coast?

Those communities are called maroons, and there were lots of them (usually joining with Indian communities) - not so much in the north (although we have things like the Black Seminoles or the Great Dismal Swamp), but Brazil had the Palmares community in the hinterlands which militarily resisted Portuguese incursions in the 17th century, eventually succumbing after a multi-year campaign and a lengthy siege. Britain conceded to the maroons in Jamaica. In Central America many refugees mixed with the Miskitu of Nicaragua and Honduras where they allied with the British, and in Mexico the former slave Gaspar Yanga forced the Spanish to accept maroon self-rule (resulting in a modern Mexican town).
 

TFSmith121

Banned
Not just Haiti, either;

I think your most important question is what is "African-American", because you may be overlooking Liberia, and Haiti.

Not just Haiti, either; almost all the smaller island nations in the Lesser Antilles, along with Jamaica and the Bahamas have (essentially) ations of (sub-Saharan) African ancestry; there are also large populations of (SS) African ancestry in the Dominican Republic and Cuba...

Really depends on what sort of definition you are suggesting.

Best,
 

Deleted member 67076

Now if you want one in the Americas? My recommendation is be willing to adopt all people in the Americas decended from Africans - and build a Caribbean Nation. Emancipation from the states, leading to emigration to Cuba, Jamaica, Hispaniola - and creating a united African-American culture and state.
The question remains? Why would these places accept so much immigration from the states?

Another possibility is to have as many African American families leave for Hispaniola, but the men stay and try and find the best work they can - sending everything else back to Hispaniola, until it is a better place to live than the US. The added wealth and demographics should enable a stronger state there, that could begin to dominate the Caribbean.
None of the native populations in Hispaniola would accept large amounts of African American immigrants, small yes, but not enough to change the demographics of the place. They've always been highly assimilationist cultures and never have been tolerant of another large culture competing within their space.

Second, most of the Caribbean until rather recently was under the domination of colonial powers. Unless decolonization happens much earlier than it would historically, this state isn't going to dominate much.

Third, why would Cuba, the Hispaniolan nations and Jamaica federate? Each has separate national identities that were formed early in the colonial period.
 

GdwnsnHo

Banned
The question remains? Why would these places accept so much immigration from the states?

Odd as it may be - money. If they see that the US immigrants have families sending money over, which can be taxed, the government of Haiti, as indebted as it was, would be mad to refuse them, especially as those in Haiti itself would also be a source of tax revenue.

Plus, if the same people responsible for Liberia IOTL, can instead be convinced to provide backing for Haiti - then there is even more money coming in.

Beyond that, the extra manpower and money also means that the Haitans could be more likely to keep the territories that now make up the Dominican Republic. Grateful immigrants make good loyalists.

None of the native populations in Hispaniola would accept large amounts of African American immigrants, small yes, but not enough to change the demographics of the place. They've always been highly assimilationist cultures and never have been tolerant of another large culture competing within their space.

Second, most of the Caribbean until rather recently was under the domination of colonial powers. Unless decolonization happens much earlier than it would historically, this state isn't going to dominate much.

It doesn't need to dominate much, but if it can be the strongest nation in the area, it could well try and use the common heritage of slavery, and its wealth, to encourage the independence movements of the various islands, to then lead to joining a federation (with the expectation that the wealthier Haiti would be providing some measure of cash, protection, and order). - Admittedly this would only work with a very successful Haiti.

Third, why would Cuba, the Hispaniolan nations and Jamaica federate? Each has separate national identities that were formed early in the colonial period.

I don't recall saying anything about it prior to this post - but the only way I could see it is if there is a Pan-Caribbean African-American state movement. Something I see as much more likely with an "African American" Haiti that has an interest in encouraging such a movement.

Admittedly - Cuba is probably not going to partake, it is bigger, strong, and a single island. Jamaica has a long term cultural issue, whereas the remainder? They're small enough to see an advantage to being part of a federation - if only there was a movement for it.
 

Deleted member 67076

Odd as it may be - money. If they see that the US immigrants have families sending money over, which can be taxed, the government of Haiti, as indebted as it was, would be mad to refuse them, especially as those in Haiti itself would also be a source of tax revenue.
How much money would that be? Agricultural and manufacturing jobs (which the majority would be undertaking if they were free) pay very little, even before one factors that free Afro-Americans would be making far less money than white workers would for agriculture jobs, assuming there would be enough freemen that decide to emigrate their families and send remittences overseas.

Besides, the nations they would be immigrating too are notoriously unstable; many of their hard earned gains would repeatedly be lost in civil strife, interventions, economic depressions and other tragedies. This is going to undermine the investment of immigrating there.

Plus, if the same people responsible for Liberia IOTL, can instead be convinced to provide backing for Haiti - then there is even more money coming in.
I'm scepitcal of this. IOTL Gran Colombia offered to the United States to be a colony of African Americans and that was rejected.

Haiti wasn't recognized as a state until the 1860s by the United States and was sanctioned by the US in concordance with France's policies. One has to wonder why the US would allow thousands upon thousands to leave to a rouge state that would strengthen their manpower?

The Samana American immigrants were exceptional because so many came. And they only numbered around 6,000.

Beyond that, the extra manpower and money also means that the Haitans could be more likely to keep the territories that now make up the Dominican Republic. Grateful immigrants make good loyalists.
How many would be able to come prior to emancipation? You mention prior to Dominican Independence, implying a POD prior to 1844.

Haiti cannot keep the Dominican territories in nearly any circumstance due to a wide variety of economic, structural and political issues pertaining to it, in addition to having a hostile ethnic minority wanting to leave that has foreign support.

It doesn't need to dominate much, but if it can be the strongest nation in the area, it could well try and use the common heritage of slavery, and its wealth, to encourage the independence movements of the various islands, to then lead to joining a federation (with the expectation that the wealthier Haiti would be providing some measure of cash, protection, and order). - Admittedly this would only work with a very successful Haiti.
The deck is too stacked against it unfortunately, nor are the new immigrants going to shift the culture enough.
 
The OP said any POD after Columbus, so all the comments about how unstable otl's Caribbean was in the 19th century may simply not be relevant.

For example, maybe in ttl only a single colonial power ever controls the Caribbean, so it emerges from the colonial Era as a strong unified state. Probably, like otl, the caribbean population would be majority African descent: maybe their independence struggle took the form of a successful region-wide slave revolt.

Also, it seems that most posters here are interpreting 'african-American' as 'african-USAan', which i'm not sure was the original intent. With pod just after Columbus, there likely wouldn't be a USA as we know it....
 
Top