Whether we 'win' or not in Afghanistan depends a lot on what our goals are. Personally, the only goal I wanted to achieve there was wreaking bloody vengeance on Al Qaida and getting Osama Bin Laden. Arguably, we've done the first half of that, and failed miserably on the second. Taking out the Taliban? Nation building? Should never have been our goals. I'm not sure that Afghanistan can be made into a stable democracy, not because of racist reasons stated earlier, but because the place is such a mess of tangled ethnic groups who don't like each other. I've often thought that the blood and treasure we wasted screwing around in Iraq could have been put to far better use in Afghanistan, although the warplanes and tanks we used in Iraq wouldn't be so useful there (the infantry certainly would have been). As is stands now, if we can get our hands on Osama (or just his head), I'd declare victory and get the hell out...