Afghanistan-wank

counterblitzkrieg

Is there a realistic way to make a much more powerful Afghanistan state that will be a world power by the modern day. For bonus points, maybe the entire world would be united under Afghanistan's flag:eek:. Is there a realistic POD for this or am I crossing the borders to ASB territory?
 

wormyguy

Banned
Depending on the direction it expands in, it would no longer be Afghanistan, but instead Persia or India. So no.
 

Yelnoc

counterblitzkrieg said:
Is there a realistic way to make a much more powerful Afghanistan state that will be a world power by the modern day. For bonus points, maybe the entire world would be united under Afghanistan's flag:eek:. Is there a realistic POD for this or am I crossing the borders to ASB territory?
Click to expand...
That depends, define Afghanistan.

I would think the closest you will get is something like a surving Kushan Empire.
 

Philip

Donor
Yelnoc said:
That depends, define Afghanistan.
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Agreed. Do you (OP) mean something like a Pashtun Empire or an Empire centered in (modern OTL) Afghanistan?

If it is the former, there was the Hotaki dynasty.

If it is the latter, there were such states as the Ghaznavid Empire,
 

Yelnoc

Canadian Federation said:
What about the Mughals? Before India, weren't they primarily based in Afghanistan?
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I would say they were more focused in Persia (if your referring to the Timurid Empire). Here's some maps to contrast the two.

Timurids
Timurid_Dynasty_821_-_873_%28AD%29.PNG


Muhgals
Mughal1700.png



Keep in mind that in the map depicting the greatest extant of the Muhgal Empire (1700 AD), the capital was located in Dehli, so they were a thoroughly Indian Empire.

I suggest you read about the History of Afghanistan, pick your favorite empire, and go from there.
 

Commissar

Banned
I would recommend the Ghor Empire, but too many people would just think Gor even though they are as different as night and day.
 

Onyx

Banned
Commissar said:
I would recommend the Ghor Empire, but too many people would just think Gor even though they are as different as night and day.
Click to expand...

Yes the Ghurids are a good choice
they were based in afghanistan and managed to control much of the Delhi area in India

However, diverting the mongols/timurids will be tough
 

B_Munro

Well, if it is to be meaningfully "Afghan", you really have to start with the Durrani: they are generally crdited with _creating_ Afghanistan as a semi-coherent state. Before it was a borderland usually divided between different empires.

The Durrani state was a good bit larger than the current state, at least at the start (see map), and I've seen pictures which show it temporarily in control of the Sind. If the founder has a run of skilled heirs, rather than the losers of OTL, "Afghanistan" could emerge as a sizeable state incorporating much of current Pakistan, eastern Iran and bits of Central Asia as well as Afghanistan proper. They probably end up losing territory to the Russians in central Asia and the British in OTL Pakistan (if they're still expanding, they are unlikely to see the need for a crash modernization program before the British show up and start kicking ass), but given their OTL military prowess they probably end up maintaining their sovereignty.

Of course, the big question is whether they can keep the show on the road: Pushtuns are willing to be ruled by Pushtuns, but they are easy to piss off...and there's a lot of other minorities to worry about.

OTOH, if we have an early 20th century Russian civil war as OTL - well. There's all of Central Asia to pick up...

Bruce

Durrani.jpg
 
Thande

Thande

Donor
Durrani Empire manages to keep control of northern India...in my TL (hint hint advertising ;) ) I posited the idea that Ahmed Shah Abdali's descendants could put themselves on the Mughal throne and revitalise the empire. Granted you have to consider whether acculturation wouldn't mean it would be more Indian than Afghan a century or so later, but you get the idea.

If the Durranis managed to conquer Kalat and Gwadar they would have a major trade port, but I don't know if they really considered such things to be important.
 

Mirza Khan

wormyguy said:
Depending on the direction it expands in, it would no longer be Afghanistan, but instead Persia or India. So no.
Click to expand...

Agreed. While its certainly possible to make Afghanistan do much better than it did historically (OTL was kind of a worst-case scenario for that country), the territory of modern Afghanistan is still landlocked backwater that does not have the resources or population to become a world power. But if you give it more territory in an direction, it won't be "Afghanistan" just Persia/Punjab/India/Turkestan with an Afghan ruling dynasty. So I would have to say no.
 

counterblitzkrieg

I think the Durrani would be much more favorable because they were the first state to be called 'Afghan.' The Mughal is more like India while the Hotaki (right before Durrani) would be more like Persians.

While Afghanistan in OTL is small and landlocked, if they could get OTL Iran, Pakistan and India (failing that, just the eastern half) I think they could be a force to be reckoned with. Once it was a center of a large and booming empire, Kabul would be a major city center.
 
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