Gian
Banned
Thank you. I'll probably add those to the main map (and the ancillaries) when I receive them.
Noted.
Well, I had to work from what I've been given (the linguistic map) and did the best I could.
Affiliated States of Boreoamerica thread
- Thread starter False Dmitri
- Start date
Thank you. I'll probably add those to the main map (and the ancillaries) when I receive them.
Noted.
Well, I had to work from what I've been given (the linguistic map) and did the best I could.
Gian
Banned
Also @False Dmitri, I might need a list not only of the archdioceses/ecclesiastical provinces of the ASB (which I can glean from the map), but also the normal dioceses subject to the archbishop of so-and-so (because I plan to tackle that also)
So I'm pretty satisfied with these Illinois counties - and I think they're called counties (Fr. comtés), since the first people to organize civil subdivisions were the minority English in the south-central part of the state. They established what became the row of three along the border there. I don't have names yet for most of them, but @Gian , you can add them to the map.
As I said earlier, the counties of Illinois for the most part don't descend from formerly independent units, like the divisions of some other states. The lines were drawn to represent new population centers as these sprang up.
As I said earlier, the counties of Illinois for the most part don't descend from formerly independent units, like the divisions of some other states. The lines were drawn to represent new population centers as these sprang up.
Here are counties with names. Notice that I split one southeastern county in two. EDIT: I split another. Sorry @Gian if that means headache for you.
Explanation of the place-names:
Explanation of the place-names:
- Culpeper, Vandalia, and Harper: The Anglo-Virginian settlers who farmed the upper Kaskasquia River organized these three counties for themselves at a time when they thought they would probably end up Virginian territory. Culpeper is named for a county in Lower Virginia, Vandalia is named for an eighteenth-century colony in present-day Upper Virginia, and Harper comes from Alexander Harper, though the county was originally called something else. Harper commanded the Illinois militia during the Kishwauki War and is considered the "First English Illinoisan." His decision to fight with the Illinois helped to unite the French and English of the territory.
- Kaskasquia and Cahoquia: These counties take their names from the two original chief towns of the Illinois Country. They are considered the cradle of Illinois Métis society.
- Catherine: Named for the wife of King Jerome of New France in honor of his granting autonomy to Illinois.
- Lenapija and Cinkouia: Split off from other counties in the mid-19th century, these were both fancifully named for creatures in Inoca folklore, the Underwater Panther and the Thunder Beings.
- Penkichinka: From the Miami-Illinois word for West.
- Ouabache, Saguimont, Vermilion, Mackinac, Cristal-de-Roche, Theakiki, Aux-Plaines, and Renards: These counties all take their names from rivers (the Wabash, Sangamon, Vermilion, Mackinaw, Rock, Kankakee, Des Plaines, and Fox Rivers, respectively).
- Pelees: Named for the Bald Hills, a voyageurs' name for landforms along this stretch of the Mississippi.
- Marquette, Rocheblave, Godin, Fourgon, and Linville: Named for important figures in Illinois history. Father Marquette famously preached to the Illinois and was one of the first Frenchmen to visit the area. The Chevalier de Rocheblave commanded the fort in the late 18th century and helped align some of the northern tribes with the growing colony. Captain Godin is honored as "the founder of modern Illinois" for his defense of the territory and firm support of self-government. Governor Fourgon was the only autonomous governor of the state during the Imperial era and signed the declaration of independence from France. And Chief Minister Linville, Illinois's favorite son, is credited with forging the ASB in its modern form.
- Saquenuc: Saukenuk, the great Sac village on Rock Island in the Mississippi River, grew into an important port.
- Saint-Louis: Named in honor of the French Fort that the Sieur de La Salle built in the seventeenth century on a great rock overlooking the Illinois River.
- Peoria and Pimiteoui: Pimiteoui was an alternative name for Peoria in earlier days, and it was adopted for this county just south of the capital.
Last edited:
Certainly seems like a more interesting place than OTL Illinois outside of Chicago
But in all seriousness, I love the idea of the Illinois Metis, but do you have plans to expand on their culture outside of their political history?
Certainly seems like a more interesting place than OTL Illinois outside of Chicago
So here's the thing about that. A big part of what drives this project is imagining American culture without the rootlessness at the center of its narrative and character. Everything about the Illinois Metis came from a visit to Fort de Chartres. The museum has a lot about the French culture there and at the next town over, Prairie-du-Rocher. So I climbed the walls, visited the museum, walked around town, had a beer, and when I got home, there were the Illinois Metis. I think that almost any part of America has richness like that, the problem is that our culture has been buried under our mass culture. We invented modern mass culture, and we kind of let it eat us. I use the ASB to imagine something different. There's almost nothing in it that's just made up from whole cloth, it's mostly about unearthing and remixing.
A lot of that probably comes from my own biography. I come from Illinois, a state that almost totally lacks any distinct sense of identity these days. I've lived almost my whole life in American suburbs, which are both products and producers of American cultureless rootlessness. And yet, I've got deep roots. Both my parents' families have been in Illinois for at least a century. My roots are down there but they're buried and out of sight. I've been a local history buff for a long time and know that every place has a story, but also that those stories don't play much of a role in how most Americans think about their identities or their homes. It's a kind of sad longing for a past, I suppose, and this is a way I've found to express it.
Most of what I wrote four years ago (after my trip downstate) is still valid. I'll copy what's on the Weebly rather than quote the post because I might have changed some of the verbage and such.
It's just a beginning and not a complete cultural profile. When it comes to things like traditional dress, music, festivals, and food, one would look to analogies with other Metis groups, as well as those aspects of the folk culture of OTL Illinois that have pre-English roots and/or emerged as a response to life on the prairie.
In addition there are some videos from Prairie-du-Rocher and Sainte-Genevieve, Missouri, that I think capture some of the look and sound of TTL's Illinois.
Last edited:
I have a similar story, especially on my mom's side, although I've lived most of my life in the city and only recently moved to the suburbs. IMO, many Chicago neighborhoods still have distinct culture/look/etc., but the suburbs...yeah they do start to blur together and sometimes even I am confused where their borders are.
Nevertheless I've always been fascinated by my personal family history and the communities we belong to. I remember how my old neighborhood had enough Serbs in it that a couple stores had signs in Cyrillic...now not so much. All of the old local restaurants and stores have now been replaced by the same old chains you see everywhere else.
For my own part I try to keep certain unique traditions of my family alive despite the fact that we are more "American" now then anything else (i.e. like celebrating Slava despite not being Orthodox Christian anymore), but its surprising the resistance you get from people. I've had several arguments with people who said your "ethnicity" shouldn't matter anymore because you're American. I've always argued: why can't I have both? Why can't I keep alive the culture of the "old country" and be an American? Although perhaps that's a discussion for a different thread...
Thanks for sharing this. I completely forgot about this!
Last edited:
That won't be for a while... a place to start is that the three southwestern counties, and some areas adjacent to them, have a definite Virginian/Chesapian culture. The southeast and center is ethnocultural Illinois by majority. Peoria itself can be labeled high diversity, and so can the immediate environs of St. Louis (Upper Louisiana/Missouri). Some rural parts of the north end have a distinct indigenous identity, and probably the Anishinaabe (Potawatomi) in the northeast, and the Sauk-Fox in the northwest, are the ones most likely to show up on the scale of your map.
You've seen this settlement map of the region? You can use it as a pretty good basis for Upper Louisiana and Illinois, to some extent. I'd say that while there are still some pockets of northern Upper Virginia that have maintained an Illinois identity, the bulk of the state is Louisiannais (what we would call in OTL Louisiana Creole).
And I don't know what can be done with Dakota and Arques... both are basically empty spaces at the moment, the least developed on the map. I can assume at least that Arques is Louisiannais along the Mississippi and in the largest towns, Mormon in some valleys and in the far northwest, and some sort of indigenous in between. And I know that Dakota has some kind of French-Metis culture, at least in some places, but that it also acted as a kind of haven for western Indian peoples driven off their lands by homesteaders. So... those are two states looking for a good idea, I'd say, and anything put there is going to be rather tentative.
I've lived in downstate IL for my entire life, and this perfectly encapsulates my feelings on the area, which I haven't really been able to put into words until now. It's as if the state's identity just vanished one day, and all that's left are museums. It's nice to see how things could've looked if the original culture had stayed around!
Gian
Banned
Also @False Dmitri, about those ethnic groups in the Upper Country, the Francophone population will mostly be divided between Canadians (in the east and Nipissing), Illinoians (in the southwest), and Métis (in the rest of the state, particularly in the northwest and bordering the Native regions)
Historical map: Illinois's counties as they were originally drawn, to give an idea of how it evolved.
OK everyone. The OTL Quebec flag was always something of a placeholder, mostly because I like it a lot. But with Illinois there's starting to be a lot of fleurs-de-lis around. When one looks at the whole set of flags, I don't want the fleur-de-lis to be like a sign saying "By the way, we speak French." This is a simple alternative. I like it because it graphically links Canada with both of its former dependencies: it shares the white cross with the Upper Country and the maple leaf with Huronia. What do people think?
I actually think the OTL Quebec flag should stay. At least in my mind that design with the leaves looks even more derivative of a hypothetical borealian French design
I think the Fleur-de-Lis does leave that “we are French” vibe, but it rings closer to accurate in relation the less métis French culture that ITTL Canada would seem have. I’m inclined to keep the fleur-de-lis in lieu of any more distinctive symbol.
I actually think the OTL Quebec flag should stay. At least in my mind that design with the leaves looks even more derivative of a hypothetical borealian French design
I think the Fleur-de-Lis does leave that “we are French” vibe, but it rings closer to accurate in relation the less métis French culture that ITTL Canada would seem have. I’m inclined to keep the fleur-de-lis in lieu of any more distinctive symbol.
I definitely see the problem with using maple leaves, too. Now they're justified - the leaf began as a symbol of Canada in the TTL sense, which is to say, of modern Quebec. Maybe there's a more elegant way to incorporate it into a flag design?
I keep coming back to the historical problem here. Louisiana had a good reason to start using the fleur-de-lis: it had a counter-revolution. That's a long established part of the historical narrative. Canada never did that in this timeline, much as some of the people there might have wanted to. It kept on functioning as a colony, its paternalistic system being awkwardly fitted into the new regime. I don't see any point in the timeline when its people would be moved to adopt a fleur-de-lis symbol, especially once its rival Louisiana was using it. The maple leaf is the obvious choice, but I want the design to be good.
