I am willing to add to a world map for TTL. I have some ideas for Africa and Oceania if anyone is interested.
Affiliated States of Boreoamerica thread
- Thread starter False Dmitri
- Start date
I'm trying to work on it too! I'd like everyone's input about what the rest of the world would look like.
Upvoteanthology
Donor
I mean, this is False Dmitri's world, so I feel like we should run things by him first. 
However, I did make a map of a state I had an idea for in Africa. I never made a writeup for it or posted it here, but maybe with a few improvements it could get used. I'll remake the original map and post it here, I guess. Again, it's probably not something that could be implemented into the world.
However, I did make a map of a state I had an idea for in Africa. I never made a writeup for it or posted it here, but maybe with a few improvements it could get used. I'll remake the original map and post it here, I guess. Again, it's probably not something that could be implemented into the world.I wholly agree, I sent him a PM about working on the Worlda and organization of the rest of the world. Of course all additions would be subject to approval by ASB's Great ArchitectI mean, this is False Dmitri's world, so I feel like we should run things by him first.
Instead of the original aristocracy maintaining existence throughout the colonial period, what I was imagining was a distinct Cuzcatlan culture being maintained by New Spanish leaders/Jesuits using local Nawat/Pipil language instead of the closely related Nahuatl language. So once New Spanish/Mexican authority in Central (Or would that be South Boreo?) America finally collapse, quasi-nationalist types use their distinct language to establish a country seperate from its neighbors.
Of course, it is possible that some rich families with ties (either legitimate or dubious) to the pre-Spanish era might try to use that to establish a new kingdom...And not gonna lie a Kingdom of "The Place of Diamond Jewels" would be awesome.
Unfortunately no...And even more unfortunate, most of my notes were lost on an old computer. Do you have any it saved?
Though to be fair, a lot of revisions would be needed to account for stuff like California and Central America being independent.
The more I think about it, you probably could justify having the ASB having a population the same or maybe even greater than the same area OTL. Perhaps the ASB could follow a demographic transition similar to Brazil. In OTL, Brazil's population increased from 72.49 million in 1960 to 198.6 million in 2010 (increasing by about 274 percent) while the United States grew from 180.7 million to 309.3 million (increasing by about 171 percent).
But of course, if you really want the ASB to be "ASB," you could have the actual population amount be the exact same as OTL - just with a wildly different demographic composition and a geographic distribution.
Africa
Upvoteanthology
Donor
Alright, here's the quick redo of my original idea. Basically, it's the African version of the ASB, European colonies on the coasts allied with native African states to create a really pretty powerful developed country. The old map rests with my old, broken computer, so have the new one onlyI wholly agree, I sent him a PM about working on the Worlda and organization of the rest of the world. Of course all additions would be subject to approval by ASB's Great Architect
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That looks great! I like non-straight borders in Africa, even when they don't necessarily have any meaning either. Really adds to the idea that colonialism was vastly more humane. I don't know about the rest of y'all or False, but I really like having post-colonial (con)federations being dominant and wide-spread models of states. Cultures both native and not existing in if not perfect harmony, than at least not active conflict. Using their resources to enrich themselves and their neighbors willingly. Not to say that true settler states or ransacked colonizer-constructed indigenous states won't or shouldn't exist in the ASB's Earth, just that they would seemingly be less likely to exist in the multitude they do today.
Also fuck I need to start practicing some kind of better program than MSPaint
So, in general the premise for TTL is that colonists that are less hostile towards natives?
So this is starting to take on features of a team project. That's completely fine. If after six years I still haven't personally come up with any ideas for Africa, who am I to say that someone else's ideas are no good?
If this thing is going to grow, we'll probably have to adjust how it operates. The storehouse of info on the ASB itself is currently my own Weebly. This includes stuff that comes from Turquoise Blue and others. But there's already a lot of content that is not there, namely the California stuff from Upvote and Doctor President. And now we are starting to explore Africa and Oceania and Latin America as well, and it's going to quickly become way more than what I can or should put on a personal site. So I think we ought to dust off the Wiki page that TB started way back in the day.
In the next day or two I'll add a list of contributors to that wiki page. That will be an important step toward making this into more of a group effort.
As for decision making, I started this thing and obviously have the most stake in it, but I also recognize that it's getting bigger than just me. So far I've been kind of the sole gatekeeper for new content, and some people have felt the need to PM me before posting anything... I think we're past that stage now. Feel free to post things here, and we all can discuss how well they fit into the world. Consensus seems to be working. Now if experience has taught me anything, it's that as things like this get bigger we will have to figure out ways to solve things like drama and territoriality and randos driving by with ideas that nobody likes. Maybe that's in our future, maybe not ... for now I think consensus should work fine.
Does this sound good? Is there anything I'm not thinking of? Does the world itself need a catchier name?
Somewhat. But the colonists were also forced to be less hostile by demographics. For reasons not yet totally explained, the English settler population was much lower throughou the 16 and 1700s, while the Dutch and French settler populations were higher. This created a balance of power where the colonists needed the Indians more than they did in OTL.
If this thing is going to grow, we'll probably have to adjust how it operates. The storehouse of info on the ASB itself is currently my own Weebly. This includes stuff that comes from Turquoise Blue and others. But there's already a lot of content that is not there, namely the California stuff from Upvote and Doctor President. And now we are starting to explore Africa and Oceania and Latin America as well, and it's going to quickly become way more than what I can or should put on a personal site. So I think we ought to dust off the Wiki page that TB started way back in the day.
In the next day or two I'll add a list of contributors to that wiki page. That will be an important step toward making this into more of a group effort.
As for decision making, I started this thing and obviously have the most stake in it, but I also recognize that it's getting bigger than just me. So far I've been kind of the sole gatekeeper for new content, and some people have felt the need to PM me before posting anything... I think we're past that stage now. Feel free to post things here, and we all can discuss how well they fit into the world. Consensus seems to be working. Now if experience has taught me anything, it's that as things like this get bigger we will have to figure out ways to solve things like drama and territoriality and randos driving by with ideas that nobody likes. Maybe that's in our future, maybe not ... for now I think consensus should work fine.
Does this sound good? Is there anything I'm not thinking of? Does the world itself need a catchier name?
Somewhat. But the colonists were also forced to be less hostile by demographics. For reasons not yet totally explained, the English settler population was much lower throughou the 16 and 1700s, while the Dutch and French settler populations were higher. This created a balance of power where the colonists needed the Indians more than they did in OTL.
Drama? In a collaborative timeline? That would never happen!
Oh yeah? I take it back, then.
Rough draft of the North East of Africa. I need help with province names for the Abyssian Confederation and the unnamed Pink one.
Edit: thanks to the feedback I have received I now realize the fairly severe problems with the map. If you want me to, I can take it down so that it doesnt confuse anyone.
Edit: thanks to the feedback I have received I now realize the fairly severe problems with the map. If you want me to, I can take it down so that it doesnt confuse anyone.
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Upvoteanthology
Donor
This is still your world, and I'm sure none of us really want to impede on that. I think, though, if you do want to make it into a collaborative timeline, which you do not have to do, maybe there should be a separate little wikia, like Ill Bethisad has? Or at least a small website people can edit, like on Google Sites or something (that way you can still invite people in?). Also, I'm really sorry if I set things off with my map, I don't want to turn this into something you're not comfortable with.
But yeah, if you're planning to expand, something offsite (and off a website that nobody is really going to see the project on) would be really nice.This is still your world, and I'm sure none of us really want to impede on that. I think, though, if you do want to make it into a collaborative timeline, which you do not have to do, maybe there should be a separate little wikia, like Ill Bethisad has? Or at least a small website people can edit, like on Google Sites or something (that way you can still invite people in?). Also, I'm really sorry if I set things off with my map, I don't want to turn this into something you're not comfortable with.
Hey hey hey hey hey, I wouldn't have written what I wrote if this expansion somehow offended me. It's been six years - if a flash of inspiration about Africa was going to come, it would have happened already. My creative style tends toward the granular. Even something on the scale of the ASB is bigger than I tend to work - and even for that, I wrote detailed histories of Labrador and Martha's Vineyard before there was even a plan for the government... which came from Turquoise Blue, not me. Within the Russian Imperial Commonwealth, I have sketch maps of the tiniest exclaves, but not much sense of the history of the place. I have no plans whatsoever for those untouched ends of the world, so if my work inspires others to add on to it, all I can say is that I'm happy and flattered.
Since everyone involved is here, I think that this thread makes the most sense for discussion, and the AH.com wiki for storing and archiving. I've been involved in other groups that tried to migrate from the boards to an off-site wiki; all died almost instantly after the move.
While the ASB's Earth might indeed be dominated by both tight and loose confederations, they're likely not the only kind of states around. Perhaps the cultures and societies that didn't have much European meddling/colonisation/settlement would be more centralized. Europe itself (at least in it's present form in @False Dmitri 's mind
) is not a big confederation, but distinct central and or confederal states.While the ASB's Earth might indeed be dominated by both tight and loose confederations, they're likely not the only kind of states around. Perhaps the cultures and societies that didn't have much European meddling/colonisation/settlement would be more centralized. Europe itself (at least in it's present form in @False Dmitri 's mind
That's right, and even the North America that I shared has states that are not part of anything bigger. Rupertsland and Lakotah are examples of more centralized states. Rupertsland is probably federalized, but isn't particularly "weird" compared to federations in our own timeline.
As adjustments go, this is minor, but considering the time I've put into the Upper Country, any change to the map is noteworthy. I am adding a 25th constituent to the Upper Country in light of some reading I've done on the local history.
NIPISSING COUNTRY
Nipissing (emphasis on the first syllable) is the only constituent of the Upper Country to come from a tribal territory, which is centered on the tribe's eponymous lake. In most of the Upper Country, clear boundaries between tribes ceased to exist after the wars of the 1640s, when most of the nations were scattered and people relocated to mixed settlements.
The Nipissing people, a small Anishinaabe tribe mostly living on or near the lakeshore, were victims of this same displacement: Iroquois raids during the Beaver Wars led them to abandon their villages and flee to the west. But so strong was the connection between people and place that the Nipissing soon returned to the same sites and occupied the land around the lake once again. In subsequent years, some Catholic converts moved to a settlement in Oka, Canada, but the bulk of the nation stayed in place.
That place was highly strategic. During the days of the canoe trade, the chief route between the Upper Country and Canada was not through the lower Great Lakes. Instead, traders paddled from Lake Huron up the French River, crossed Lake Nipissing, portaged to the Mattawa, and headed down the Ottawa River to Montreal. The portage, the lake, and much of the French River lay in Nipissing territory, giving them a great deal of power in the fur trade that sustained New France. The French early on partnered with them, and they remained firm members of the French alliance ever after. The relationship benefited both parties.
But commanding such a desirable spot could be a curse as well as a blessing. Nipissing Country was subject to raids not just from the Iroquois, but from other peoples from even further away; even the Cherokee are known to have attacked at least once. The founding of Fort Detroit in the 18th century helped the Nipissing people by providing a source of arms and military aid. In the early 19th century, the English invaded and occupied much of the country as part of their campaign in Lakes Huron and Michigan. After the war it returned to the French Alliance in the Upper Country. In the French Empire period its borders were extended to the mouth of the French River, and the small indigenous communities along it were united with the tribe.
The peace that followed the wars launched a new era of rising population, canals, sail, and steam in the Great Lakes. It took a long time for the canoe trade to completely die off, but by around 1875 the trade route that had driven the economy of the Nipissing Country had fallen into disuse. Logging came next. The dynamics of the timber industry, the influx of newcomers, and especially the coming of the railroad finally pushed Nipissing to adopt a modern bureaucratic government and be integrated into the Upper Country state.
Until that point, Nipissing Country had been considered a dependent area rather than a full constituent. Even after the turn of the 20th century, it kept a special status, being allowed to keep some autonomy and some of the traditions of tribal government at a time when the Upper Country's government was becoming much more centralized. European crops also allowed agriculture to expand here, and the hunting and fishing lifestyle of the Anishinaabe people gave way to farming, though of course the traditional activities remained culturally very important.
Today, Nipissing Country is known for its distinct culture and identity despite being something of a backwater. A dialect of Anishinaabe is still its main language. The capital town, also called Nipissing, is on the northern shore of the lake. The economy rests on a small but diverse base of agriculture, mining, logging, and tourism. Since all of the Upper Country's constituents have been given more autonomy in recent years, Nipissing's government does not stand out quite as much anymore, but its tribal customs, including its hereditary chiefship, do set it apart.
For now, it's easier to modify the mid-Atlantic regional map than the Upper Country map; so here are the borders of the new constituent country. You can also see a flag; the deer is the symbol of the Nipissing tribe, while red represents the sacred fire.
(edit) Here's the updated Upper Country map:
NIPISSING COUNTRY
Nipissing (emphasis on the first syllable) is the only constituent of the Upper Country to come from a tribal territory, which is centered on the tribe's eponymous lake. In most of the Upper Country, clear boundaries between tribes ceased to exist after the wars of the 1640s, when most of the nations were scattered and people relocated to mixed settlements.
The Nipissing people, a small Anishinaabe tribe mostly living on or near the lakeshore, were victims of this same displacement: Iroquois raids during the Beaver Wars led them to abandon their villages and flee to the west. But so strong was the connection between people and place that the Nipissing soon returned to the same sites and occupied the land around the lake once again. In subsequent years, some Catholic converts moved to a settlement in Oka, Canada, but the bulk of the nation stayed in place.
That place was highly strategic. During the days of the canoe trade, the chief route between the Upper Country and Canada was not through the lower Great Lakes. Instead, traders paddled from Lake Huron up the French River, crossed Lake Nipissing, portaged to the Mattawa, and headed down the Ottawa River to Montreal. The portage, the lake, and much of the French River lay in Nipissing territory, giving them a great deal of power in the fur trade that sustained New France. The French early on partnered with them, and they remained firm members of the French alliance ever after. The relationship benefited both parties.
But commanding such a desirable spot could be a curse as well as a blessing. Nipissing Country was subject to raids not just from the Iroquois, but from other peoples from even further away; even the Cherokee are known to have attacked at least once. The founding of Fort Detroit in the 18th century helped the Nipissing people by providing a source of arms and military aid. In the early 19th century, the English invaded and occupied much of the country as part of their campaign in Lakes Huron and Michigan. After the war it returned to the French Alliance in the Upper Country. In the French Empire period its borders were extended to the mouth of the French River, and the small indigenous communities along it were united with the tribe.
The peace that followed the wars launched a new era of rising population, canals, sail, and steam in the Great Lakes. It took a long time for the canoe trade to completely die off, but by around 1875 the trade route that had driven the economy of the Nipissing Country had fallen into disuse. Logging came next. The dynamics of the timber industry, the influx of newcomers, and especially the coming of the railroad finally pushed Nipissing to adopt a modern bureaucratic government and be integrated into the Upper Country state.
Until that point, Nipissing Country had been considered a dependent area rather than a full constituent. Even after the turn of the 20th century, it kept a special status, being allowed to keep some autonomy and some of the traditions of tribal government at a time when the Upper Country's government was becoming much more centralized. European crops also allowed agriculture to expand here, and the hunting and fishing lifestyle of the Anishinaabe people gave way to farming, though of course the traditional activities remained culturally very important.
Today, Nipissing Country is known for its distinct culture and identity despite being something of a backwater. A dialect of Anishinaabe is still its main language. The capital town, also called Nipissing, is on the northern shore of the lake. The economy rests on a small but diverse base of agriculture, mining, logging, and tourism. Since all of the Upper Country's constituents have been given more autonomy in recent years, Nipissing's government does not stand out quite as much anymore, but its tribal customs, including its hereditary chiefship, do set it apart.
For now, it's easier to modify the mid-Atlantic regional map than the Upper Country map; so here are the borders of the new constituent country. You can also see a flag; the deer is the symbol of the Nipissing tribe, while red represents the sacred fire.
(edit) Here's the updated Upper Country map:
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So I just realized that neither I nor anyone else has commented on this. A couple of things:
1. While the world is fairly all-over-the-place in terms of how it diverges from OTL, in general the diverging does not start until around AD 1600. In everything that has been made so far, the assumption has been that until around 1600 history was the same as in real life, and then after 1600 things start to get very different. Having the Ptolemies stick around for an extra 2000 years would bring a very different feel to what has already been made for the setting.
2. On the other hand, having British (or, more likely, English) dominions within a larger federation fits very well. Each of the three known confederations in the Americas (California, the ASB, and the Union of Antillean States) has at least one English dominion, together with other states and units. It's becoming clear that one common path for colonies in TTL is to become self-governing and join a regional confederation.
3. Just in general on the map, it seems very unusual to have the Nile as any kind of border. The Nile tends to be a spine along the center of whatever power controls it, not a boundary line.