Aerial Mining

CalBear

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So if you can deliver them (and you think of them) they are easy to make? How much would each one weigh?

Easy is a relative term. They are no more difficult to build than a conventional bomb, which is not difficult. The triggering system is a bit more difficult, but most mines pre-WW I were contact detonation, so as long as the exploder is designed to survive the initial deployment you are good to go.

Weight is a variable. The goal you have is to be able to sink a pre-dread BB, so minimum size would be around 250 pounds of wet gun cotton as a filler plus the casing. Figure 500 pounds for a drift mine and 1,500 for a moored mine. Drift mines are exactly what they sound like, you drop them and they bob along with the current, very nasty due to their unpredictable nature, but just as dangerous for your shipping as the enemy's. A moored mine is a more predictable weapon, at least you know where it is within some degree of certainty (anything you drop out of a plane is going to have a degree of uncertainty attached).
 
How difficult is it to adapt a standard mine to be air-dropped? Could a standard mine be altered quickly or would a purpose built one be needed? If a purpose built mine is necessary, how much lead time is necessary? How hard would it have been for the Japanese to have built air-dropped mines of acceptable quality (ie. could sink a contemporary battleship, given luck) in the lead up to the Russo-Japanese war? How much would such a mine weigh?

AFAIK, Soviets were the only ones who used aircraft dropped contact mines during Second World War. They used modified M/12 mines which had a charge of some 100kg's of TNT and weight of some 600kg's. Maximum depth for mine to be laid was some 130 meters. The first combat use was during the Winter War.

The question remains, however, of such a mine being of any use prior to availability of ca. late 1930's aircraft? After all, small ships, motor boats or submarines could be used instead which would be technologically much easier solutions and were, in fact, used very succesfully even during the Second World War.
 
Easy is a relative term. They are no more difficult to build than a conventional bomb, which is not difficult. The triggering system is a bit more difficult, but most mines pre-WW I were contact detonation, so as long as the exploder is designed to survive the initial deployment you are good to go.

Weight is a variable. The goal you have is to be able to sink a pre-dread BB, so minimum size would be around 250 pounds of wet gun cotton as a filler plus the casing. Figure 500 pounds for a drift mine and 1,500 for a moored mine. Drift mines are exactly what they sound like, you drop them and they bob along with the current, very nasty due to their unpredictable nature, but just as dangerous for your shipping as the enemy's. A moored mine is a more predictable weapon, at least you know where it is within some degree of certainty (anything you drop out of a plane is going to have a degree of uncertainty attached).

Thanks very much for the info.
 
Easy is a relative term. They are no more difficult to build than a conventional bomb, which is not difficult. The triggering system is a bit more difficult, but most mines pre-WW I were contact detonation, so as long as the exploder is designed to survive the initial deployment you are good to go.

Weight is a variable. The goal you have is to be able to sink a pre-dread BB, so minimum size would be around 250 pounds of wet gun cotton as a filler plus the casing. Figure 500 pounds for a drift mine and 1,500 for a moored mine. Drift mines are exactly what they sound like, you drop them and they bob along with the current, very nasty due to their unpredictable nature, but just as dangerous for your shipping as the enemy's. A moored mine is a more predictable weapon, at least you know where it is within some degree of certainty (anything you drop out of a plane is going to have a degree of uncertainty attached).

There's nothing too much more complex about an aerial mine than a normal one, except that it would have to occur to someone to build a mine to be delivered by a non-existant delivery system, which you would then have to develop, which ain't happening by 1904. The idea of a balloon-laid minefield in the China Seas is rather fantastic, to say the least.
 
That would be about one mine, I think. Maybe two. And a bag full of explosive gasses with 3 hp probably isn't the best idea for a weapons delivery system. I suppose if it weren't raining and there was no wind, and you didn't need a minefield more than a few miles away, it would be possible... I'm not sure why anyone would do this when you can just use a boat. Heck, a strong swimmer with a float would be better.

Probably not the best idea, especially not for a 1904 war (although I can see it being put to use in, say, WWI, especially if a certain enterprising young emperor got the idea into his head...). But possible? Yeah. And, in some respects, makes sense for a conflict in the early 20th century. Fly into the middle of the enemy fleet or anchorage (in a day before AAA was really commonplace) and deploy mine. Again, not a terribly practical concept, but useable
 

Markus

Banned
The question remains, however, of such a mine being of any use prior to availability of ca. late 1930's aircraft?

Even 1920´s a/c could easily lift 500lb and more. Maybe a gross weight of 500lb is not enough for 400lb charge to sink a BB but the most numerous targets would be merchant ships with no armour and limited damage control, followed by smaller warships like destroyers and submarines. Cruisers are a distant third.

edit: I completely forgot that WW1 BB had very poor anti-torpedo protection, so a 400lb charge would most likely not be needed to blow a nice, big hole into one. On the other hand, one hole might not suffice. As for the delivery system, a Gotha bomber could carry up to 1,100lb.
 
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CalBear

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AFAIK, Soviets were the only ones who used aircraft dropped contact mines during Second World War. They used modified M/12 mines which had a charge of some 100kg's of TNT and weight of some 600kg's. Maximum depth for mine to be laid was some 130 meters. The first combat use was during the Winter War.

The question remains, however, of such a mine being of any use prior to availability of ca. late 1930's aircraft? After all, small ships, motor boats or submarines could be used instead which would be technologically much easier solutions and were, in fact, used very succesfully even during the Second World War.

The U.S. deployed a number of Mark 19 mines with pressure detonators around Kyushu and Honshu during the end game of the Pacific War. What made them really nasty is that they would mix magnetic, acoustic, and pressure mines in the same fields with the result that sweeping was more or less a one way mission.
 
What do you think the next attempt at banning a weapon system will be?

Actually, there's an effort to ban cluster bombs, because some of the bomblets either are duds when dropped, or are on delay fuses (which malfunction), and when disturbed, cause problems similar to those that have people up in arms about anti-personnel land mines, particularly when dropped in areas with lots of civilians around.
 
The U.S. deployed a number of Mark 19 mines with pressure detonators around Kyushu and Honshu during the end game of the Pacific War. What made them really nasty is that they would mix magnetic, acoustic, and pressure mines in the same fields with the result that sweeping was more or less a one way mission.

Yes, as an offensive weapon an influence mine is in a class of it's own. The Soviet example was the only case in which a traditional Herz-horned contact mine was used as an aircraft laid offensive mine. They only started large scale influence mine use in 1942 with acquiring of British weapons.

After introduction of working paravanes the contact mines were only truly effective when employed en masse in conjuction with other fires (coastal artillery, MTB's etc.) and with a variation of anti sweeping devices. Though even contact mines might get lucky.
 
Air dropped sea mines need some significant modifications, and most modern ones have parachute retardant systems. Some modern sea mines have a mk-46 torpedo as the "explosive" when activated (pressure or magnetic or acoustic) they torp is activated & released, these are especially designed for anti-sub minefields. Also not that most modern mines have a "counter" system that lets you set how many ships pass before it goes up... gives the enemy a feeling that they have all been swept.

BTW back in the cold war the job of some navy reserve units was to sweep major harbors like NYC to get a sonar picture of all the junk on the bottom, so anything new could be checked out in case of hostilities. A concern was combloc or 3rd world ships might plant some mines with remote activation just prior to hostilities.
 
Even 1920´s a/c could easily lift 500lb and more. Maybe a gross weight of 500lb is not enough for 400lb charge to sink a BB but the most numerous targets would be merchant ships with no armour and limited damage control, followed by smaller warships like destroyers and submarines. Cruisers are a distant third.

edit: I completely forgot that WW1 BB had very poor anti-torpedo protection, so a 400lb charge would most likely not be needed to blow a nice, big hole into one. On the other hand, one hole might not suffice. As for the delivery system, a Gotha bomber could carry up to 1,100lb.

Your chances of having a Gotha bomber operational by 1904 are not terribly good, however. Further, when would it have become possible to execute such an operation at night? Certainly not very early. Aerial minelaying in a harbor isn't going to be very effective if you can just have someone sit in a lawn chair on deck and mark the spots where all the mines are dropped.

If you want something that could actually work, get some small boats at night, or maybe with some real ingenuity, you could sow mines with a sub at this early date.
 
If you want something that could actually work, get some small boats at night, or maybe with some real ingenuity, you could sow mines with a sub at this early date.

Submarine minelayers were just few years away, first one, Russian minelaying submarine Krab was commissioned in 1915 as were the German UC boats (which were commissioned earlier but ordered later). With more effort put into minelaying I'd imagine this to be possible some years earlier as technical difficulties were not insurmountable.
 
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