Adolf Hitler not antisemetic

Taken From Wikipedia

Hermann Fegelein. (1906-45)

SS-Grupenfuhrer. Was a general of the Waffen SS in Germany.

He was a member of Adolf Hitler's entourage and brother in law to Eva Braun.

On July 19th 1941 in Russia he reported to his commanding officer Erich von Dem Bach that his unit had killed 13,788 Jews in civilian clothes.

In 1944 he married Eva Braun's sister and Hitler, Himmler and Bormann were witnesses at the ceremony.

Apparently he was 'shot like a dog' on April 28th 1945 for desertion and theft.

I'm sure Hfegelein the man who is sorry for causing any misunderstanding is genuine and I wouldn't want to read motives that don't exist:rolleyes:.
 
Taken From Wikipedia

Hermann Fegelein. (1906-45)

SS-Grupenfuhrer. Was a general of the Waffen SS in Germany.

He was a member of Adolf Hitler's entourage and brother in law to Eva Braun.

On July 19th 1941 in Russia he reported to his commanding officer Erich von Dem Bach that his unit had killed 13,788 Jews in civilian clothes.

In 1944 he married Eva Braun's sister and Hitler, Himmler and Bormann were witnesses at the ceremony.

Apparently he was 'shot like a dog' on April 28th 1945 for desertion and theft.

I'm sure Hfegelein the man who is sorry for causing any misunderstanding is genuine and I wouldn't want to read motives that don't exist:rolleyes:.

I have no motives, my good man. Like I said, I simply chose the username because of the Downfall parody meme. I have no sympathies for Hitler, Himmler, Bormann, Goering or any Nazi scum. I made a poor choice of words that offended people. I am willing to live up to my mistakes and take full responsibility for any offense I have caused.
 

Soundgarden

Banned
Personally, I don't think so. It was mainly him blaming the communists and the entente for Germany's woes that did it. Well, that and the fact that there was no credible/effective opposition (except for Thallman and the Communists, which alienated Middle and Upper Class voters). The true "beauty" of Nazism (and I feel guilty for saying that...) was that it cloaked itself in revolutionary fervor, appealing to the Working classes; while promising to protect "traditional" German values, thereby appealing to the Upper and Middle Classes.

However, when he got into power, Hitler was now free to enact his inane racial theories. It certainly served as a way to unite Germany against a common foe and consolidate his power, but I too have wondered what would've happened had the Nazi's never pursued the holocaust. Perhaps a better question to ask would be "what if Hitler and the Nazis were less anti-Semitic?" Still have the Nuremburg laws, etc., but Jews and "Untermensch" are tolerated in much the same way South Africa "tolerated" Blacks and Asians. Maybe have the following things happen:

1. Nuremburg laws passed; albeit without the intent of using them later to assist with Genocide.
2. Jews can be granted "Honorary Aryan" status if they denounce the "Jewish Conspiracy" and renounce their Jewish faith. From there, they can join the Wehrmacht, get jobs, etc. (But only the most "Aryan" of these "honorary Aryans" can join the Nazi party)
3. Jewish schools are closed, and Jewish children are sent to special "boarding schools" to be indoctrinated into Aryan culture. This is somewhat like what the Australian government did to Aboriginals and what the U.S. government tried to do with Indians.
4. Have it that the minimum amount of blood to be considered a Jew be around 1/3rd or 1/4th.
5. Allow for "Aryanized" Jews to marry other Aryans. Eventually, the Jewish race (And yes, I am aware that the concept of a Jewish "Race" is absolute B.S. :rolleyes:) will disappear, being that if you're less Jewish than 1/3rd or 1/4th, you're considered "Aryan." If they go with the idea that "Jewishness" is transferred through the father, maybe only Female Jews are allowed to marry Aryans (And only "Honorary Aryans"/Male "Germanized" Jews are allowed to marry Aryan women).
6. Make exceptions to these rules for Jews who are scientists, doctors, professionals, etc. (In other words: If you can help us win the war, we'll tolerate you)

In other words, Nazi Germany behaves a bit more like Apartheid South Africa or other "Racist" states instead of going down the uber-racist, distopian-mass genocide route. They ain't nice, but they aren't bloodthirsty psychopaths either. (Of course, these laws might only apply to Jews in Western Europe and Germany proper, so that means they might still go crazy in the east. :eek: On the flip-side, however, there's also a possibility that they'll allow for "Aryanizable" Jews in the east to survive, provided they assimilate.)[/QUOTE]

Being of Jewish Ancestry myself, I must say, that isn't so bad. It would've given Nazi Germany a better shot at winning the war, or at the very least, not being as valnurable as they were by 1943, thus prolonging the war by say the late 1940s. I guess thats what some people meant when they say Hitler was okay in the beginning, but he went too far.

His extreme anti-semitism was his downfall. He actually could've used some Jewish Intelligence(if he was aware of such) to his advantage. Possibly help with their nuclear program and be on equal footing with the Soviets.
 
Personally, I don't think so. It was mainly him blaming the communists and the entente for Germany's woes that did it. Well, that and the fact that there was no credible/effective opposition (except for Thallman and the Communists, which alienated Middle and Upper Class voters). The true "beauty" of Nazism (and I feel guilty for saying that...) was that it cloaked itself in revolutionary fervor, appealing to the Working classes; while promising to protect "traditional" German values, thereby appealing to the Upper and Middle Classes.

However, when he got into power, Hitler was now free to enact his inane racial theories. It certainly served as a way to unite Germany against a common foe and consolidate his power, but I too have wondered what would've happened had the Nazi's never pursued the holocaust. Perhaps a better question to ask would be "what if Hitler and the Nazis were less anti-Semitic?" Still have the Nuremburg laws, etc., but Jews and "Untermensch" are tolerated in much the same way South Africa "tolerated" Blacks and Asians. Maybe have the following things happen:

1. Nuremburg laws passed; albeit without the intent of using them later to assist with Genocide.
2. Jews can be granted "Honorary Aryan" status if they denounce the "Jewish Conspiracy" and renounce their Jewish faith. From there, they can join the Wehrmacht, get jobs, etc. (But only the most "Aryan" of these "honorary Aryans" can join the Nazi party)
3. Jewish schools are closed, and Jewish children are sent to special "boarding schools" to be indoctrinated into Aryan culture. This is somewhat like what the Australian government did to Aboriginals and what the U.S. government tried to do with Indians.
4. Have it that the minimum amount of blood to be considered a Jew be around 1/3rd or 1/4th.
5. Allow for "Aryanized" Jews to marry other Aryans. Eventually, the Jewish race (And yes, I am aware that the concept of a Jewish "Race" is absolute B.S. :rolleyes:) will disappear, being that if you're less Jewish than 1/3rd or 1/4th, you're considered "Aryan." If they go with the idea that "Jewishness" is transferred through the father, maybe only Female Jews are allowed to marry Aryans (And only "Honorary Aryans"/Male "Germanized" Jews are allowed to marry Aryan women).
6. Make exceptions to these rules for Jews who are scientists, doctors, professionals, etc. (In other words: If you can help us win the war, we'll tolerate you)

In other words, Nazi Germany behaves a bit more like Apartheid South Africa or other "Racist" states instead of going down the uber-racist, distopian-mass genocide route. They ain't nice, but they aren't bloodthirsty psychopaths either. (Of course, these laws might only apply to Jews in Western Europe and Germany proper, so that means they might still go crazy in the east. :eek: On the flip-side, however, there's also a possibility that they'll allow for "Aryanizable" Jews in the east to survive, provided they assimilate.)[/QUOTE]

Being of Jewish Ancestry myself, I must say, that isn't so bad. It would've given Nazi Germany a better shot at winning the war, or at the very least, not being as valnurable as they were by 1943, thus prolonging the war by say the late 1940s. I guess thats what some people meant when they say Hitler was okay in the beginning, but he went too far.

His extreme anti-semitism was his downfall. He actually could've used some Jewish Intelligence(if he was aware of such) to his advantage. Possibly help with their nuclear program and be on equal footing with the Soviets.

Phew... So, Comment from a Jewish standpoint...
 

Soundgarden

Banned
Phew... So, Comment from a Jewish standpoint...

Well, of course it wouldn't be paradise for a Jew, but they would (at least technically) be safe from The Gestapo. They could've accepted "Aryanization" publicly, but privately still practiced their religion(like they did with the Spanish Inquisition).

For the ones who didn't want to be Aryanized, they could've emigrated for Palestine earlier and founded their own homeland, though I don't know for sure if the U.S. would've backed up a Jewish Majority State without the consequences of The Holocaust. Who knows.

We can all agree though that would've been leaps and bounds better than what really happened.
 
Well, of course it wouldn't be paradise for a Jew, but they would (at least technically) be safe from The Gestapo. They could've accepted "Aryanization" publicly, but privately still practiced their religion(like they did with the Spanish Inquisition).

For the ones who didn't want to be Aryanized, they could've emigrated for Palestine earlier and founded their own homeland, though I don't know for sure if the U.S. would've backed up a Jewish Majority State without the consequences of The Holocaust. Who knows.

We can all agree though that would've been leaps and bounds better than what really happened.

Unless of course the extra resources a 'better' (and I also hate saying that) holocaust lent to the Nazi war effort lets them prolong the war further (and I don't think it would, at least in any meaningful way).
 
I would try to make a TL where Hitler didn't blame on the Jews or Slavs, and instead blamed the British and French.
Also Fegelein? FEGELEIN! FEGELEIN! FEGELEIN!
 
Personally, I don't think so. It was mainly him blaming the communists and the entente for Germany's woes that did it. Well, that and the fact that there was no credible/effective opposition (except for Thallman and the Communists, which alienated Middle and Upper Class voters). The true "beauty" of Nazism (and I feel guilty for saying that...) was that it cloaked itself in revolutionary fervor, appealing to the Working classes; while promising to protect "traditional" German values, thereby appealing to the Upper and Middle Classes.

However, when he got into power, Hitler was now free to enact his inane racial theories. It certainly served as a way to unite Germany against a common foe and consolidate his power, but I too have wondered what would've happened had the Nazi's never pursued the holocaust. Perhaps a better question to ask would be "what if Hitler and the Nazis were less anti-Semitic?" Still have the Nuremburg laws, etc., but Jews and "Untermensch" are tolerated in much the same way South Africa "tolerated" Blacks and Asians. Maybe have the following things happen:

1. Nuremburg laws passed; albeit without the intent of using them later to assist with Genocide.
2. Jews can be granted "Honorary Aryan" status if they denounce the "Jewish Conspiracy" and renounce their Jewish faith. From there, they can join the Wehrmacht, get jobs, etc. (But only the most "Aryan" of these "honorary Aryans" can join the Nazi party)
3. Jewish schools are closed, and Jewish children are sent to special "boarding schools" to be indoctrinated into Aryan culture. This is somewhat like what the Australian government did to Aboriginals and what the U.S. government tried to do with Indians.
4. Have it that the minimum amount of blood to be considered a Jew be around 1/3rd or 1/4th.
5. Allow for "Aryanized" Jews to marry other Aryans. Eventually, the Jewish race (And yes, I am aware that the concept of a Jewish "Race" is absolute B.S. :rolleyes:) will disappear, being that if you're less Jewish than 1/3rd or 1/4th, you're considered "Aryan." If they go with the idea that "Jewishness" is transferred through the father, maybe only Female Jews are allowed to marry Aryans (And only "Honorary Aryans"/Male "Germanized" Jews are allowed to marry Aryan women).
6. Make exceptions to these rules for Jews who are scientists, doctors, professionals, etc. (In other words: If you can help us win the war, we'll tolerate you)

In other words, Nazi Germany behaves a bit more like Apartheid South Africa or other "Racist" states instead of going down the uber-racist, distopian-mass genocide route. They ain't nice, but they aren't bloodthirsty psychopaths either. (Of course, these laws might only apply to Jews in Western Europe and Germany proper, so that means they might still go crazy in the east. :eek: On the flip-side, however, there's also a possibility that they'll allow for "Aryanizable" Jews in the east to survive, provided they assimilate.)
A TL where Nazi Germany actually has a shot at winning (of course they still lose eventually) by having this tamed-down viewpoint towards Jews, and by making a few smarter moves in the late 30s, could be pretty interesting.

Also maybe they'd consider eastern Jews as more 'potentially Aryan' than the Slavs.

I would try to make a TL where Hitler didn't blame on the Jews or Slavs, and instead blamed the British and French.
Also Fegelein? FEGELEIN! FEGELEIN! FEGELEIN!
WI: No Fegelein and thus victorious Axis powers? :p
 

b12ox

Banned
It was Hitler who said that Jews plunged Germany into another world war. It could have been wiser to leave Jews and with that the world banking alone, especially when you are getting ready for a war with Russia. The Nazis were insane from the very start. The more it went on, the more insane they were getting. Armies of the whole world are bangig at the gates, allied bombers are roasting german cities and the Nazis think of nothing but rounding up Jews and packing them into trains to Auschwitz.
 
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