Adolf Hitler not antisemetic

My thought would be if when Adolf Hitler and the NSDAP went around Germany and instead of blaming the Jews for the loss of WWI instead blamed the British and French for the horribly unfair Versailles Treaty. And made every German (Aryan, Jew, etc) truly believe in Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer. Thereby not having wasted manpower killing "Untermensche" and also scientists like Albert Einstein neve leaving Germany. This also would make WWII be a war to Regain Germany's lost territories and be a war where all Germans fought for the Fatherland
 
Was it really the "It's the Yids wot done it!" shtick that got him to power?

Good question, part of what helped propel the Nazis to power was the political chaos of the Weimar Republic, especially post 1929, and the lack of popular legitimacy plus a divided opposition. There's nothing that says he can't doubledown on anti-communism and weld that onto the stab in the back myth.
 
Was it really the "It's the Yids wot done it!" shtick that got him to power?

Personally, I don't think so. It was mainly him blaming the communists and the entente for Germany's woes that did it. Well, that and the fact that there was no credible/effective opposition (except for Thallman and the Communists, which alienated Middle and Upper Class voters). The true "beauty" of Nazism (and I feel guilty for saying that...) was that it cloaked itself in revolutionary fervor, appealing to the Working classes; while promising to protect "traditional" German values, thereby appealing to the Upper and Middle Classes.

However, when he got into power, Hitler was now free to enact his inane racial theories. It certainly served as a way to unite Germany against a common foe and consolidate his power, but I too have wondered what would've happened had the Nazi's never pursued the holocaust. Perhaps a better question to ask would be "what if Hitler and the Nazis were less anti-Semitic?" Still have the Nuremburg laws, etc., but Jews and "Untermensch" are tolerated in much the same way South Africa "tolerated" Blacks and Asians. Maybe have the following things happen:

1. Nuremburg laws passed; albeit without the intent of using them later to assist with Genocide.
2. Jews can be granted "Honorary Aryan" status if they denounce the "Jewish Conspiracy" and renounce their Jewish faith. From there, they can join the Wehrmacht, get jobs, etc. (But only the most "Aryan" of these "honorary Aryans" can join the Nazi party)
3. Jewish schools are closed, and Jewish children are sent to special "boarding schools" to be indoctrinated into Aryan culture. This is somewhat like what the Australian government did to Aboriginals and what the U.S. government tried to do with Indians.
4. Have it that the minimum amount of blood to be considered a Jew be around 1/3rd or 1/4th.
5. Allow for "Aryanized" Jews to marry other Aryans. Eventually, the Jewish race (And yes, I am aware that the concept of a Jewish "Race" is absolute B.S. :rolleyes:) will disappear, being that if you're less Jewish than 1/3rd or 1/4th, you're considered "Aryan." If they go with the idea that "Jewishness" is transferred through the father, maybe only Female Jews are allowed to marry Aryans (And only "Honorary Aryans"/Male "Germanized" Jews are allowed to marry Aryan women).
6. Make exceptions to these rules for Jews who are scientists, doctors, professionals, etc. (In other words: If you can help us win the war, we'll tolerate you)

In other words, Nazi Germany behaves a bit more like Apartheid South Africa or other "Racist" states instead of going down the uber-racist, distopian-mass genocide route. They ain't nice, but they aren't bloodthirsty psychopaths either. (Of course, these laws might only apply to Jews in Western Europe and Germany proper, so that means they might still go crazy in the east. :eek: On the flip-side, however, there's also a possibility that they'll allow for "Aryanizable" Jews in the east to survive, provided they assimilate.)
 
Personally, I don't think so. It was mainly him blaming the communists and the entente for Germany's woes that did it. Well, that and the fact that there was no credible/effective opposition (except for Thallman and the Communists, which alienated Middle and Upper Class voters). The true "beauty" of Nazism (and I feel guilty for saying that...) was that it cloaked itself in revolutionary fervor, appealing to the Working classes; while promising to protect "traditional" German values, thereby appealing to the Upper and Middle Classes.

However, when he got into power, Hitler was now free to enact his inane racial theories. It certainly served as a way to unite Germany against a common foe and consolidate his power, but I too have wondered what would've happened had the Nazi's never pursued the holocaust. Perhaps a better question to ask would be "what if Hitler and the Nazis were less anti-Semitic?" Still have the Nuremburg laws, etc., but Jews and "Untermensch" are tolerated in much the same way South Africa "tolerated" Blacks and Asians. Maybe have the following things happen:

1. Nuremburg laws passed; albeit without the intent of using them later to assist with Genocide.
2. Jews can be granted "Honorary Aryan" status if they denounce the "Jewish Conspiracy" and renounce their Jewish faith. From there, they can join the Wehrmacht, get jobs, etc. (But only the most "Aryan" of these "honorary Aryans" can join the Nazi party)
3. Jewish schools are closed, and Jewish children are sent to special "boarding schools" to be indoctrinated into Aryan culture. This is somewhat like what the Australian government did to Aboriginals and what the U.S. government tried to do with Indians.
4. Have it that the minimum amount of blood to be considered a Jew be around 1/3rd or 1/4th.
5. Allow for "Aryanized" Jews to marry other Aryans. Eventually, the Jewish race (And yes, I am aware that the concept of a Jewish "Race" is absolute B.S. :rolleyes:) will disappear, being that if you're less Jewish than 1/3rd or 1/4th, you're considered "Aryan." If they go with the idea that "Jewishness" is transferred through the father, maybe only Female Jews are allowed to marry Aryans (And only "Honorary Aryans"/Male "Germanized" Jews are allowed to marry Aryan women).
6. Make exceptions to these rules for Jews who are scientists, doctors, professionals, etc. (In other words: If you can help us win the war, we'll tolerate you)

In other words, Nazi Germany behaves a bit more like Apartheid South Africa or other "Racist" states instead of going down the uber-racist, distopian-mass genocide route. They ain't nice, but they aren't bloodthirsty psychopaths either. (Of course, these laws might only apply to Jews in Western Europe and Germany proper, so that means they might still go crazy in the east. :eek: On the flip-side, however, there's also a possibility that they'll allow for "Aryanizable" Jews in the east to survive, provided they assimilate.)

The scary thing is that this would have worked. There would have been plenty of German Jews who would go along with this if it meant that they were left alone or/and that they could still be considered 'German'. This could make the war even tougher as it would add at least a few hundred thousand men to the armed forces, not to mention guys like Einstein,although I'm pretty sure he would have not liked Hitler in any way due to Hitler's militarism.
 
Ah. Another 'what if' Hitler wasn't anti-Semitic thread:rolleyes:.

I think this comes up once a month.

No need for snarkiness (if you weren't being snarky, I'm sorry for assuming that you were), Stuka1944 was asking a legitimate question. I myself don't think that Nazism could exist without the Anti-Semitism, Anti-Communism and Racism that fueled it. I do believe that if a slightly saner and more pragmatic Hitler was in charge of the Nazi Party, we could've seen a very different solution to the "Jewish Problem." It wouldn't have been genocide, but it wouldn't have been peaches n' cream either. Imagine, for example, if all the raw materials and manpower that went into organizing the holocaust, building the camps, policing them, and exterminating the prisoners had been diverted to the war. And what would Hitler have done with a few thousand extra men (including all the SS guards)? Certainly, they wouldn't have been treated as well as "Aryan" troops, but their contribution to the war effort would've been invaluable. How many more tanks, aircraft, trains, forts and other things could've been built using the materials used to construct Auschwitz? What if Hitler had sprayed all that Zyklon D he used to gas prisoners to devastate Soviet crops? (Or if he'd gassed their troops ala WWI :eek:) Would a hungrier Red Army have been able to win Stalingrad? The least people can do is ask these questions instead of just shrugging them off as being "ASB." Atleast try to imagine what the consequence of a still-racist (but nowhere near as genocidal) Nazi Germany would've been.
 
The scary thing is that this would have worked. There would have been plenty of German Jews who would go along with this if it meant that they were left alone or/and that they could still be considered 'German'.

If Hitler had embraced a little something called "Realpolitik" he could've won the war.
 
We'd never have heard of him.
not necessarily; if germany still went to war with the allies and won the war for whatever butterflied reason (perhaps einstein's contributions let the germans get nuclear weaponry first), then he'd probably be remembered as the grand orchestrator of the war and perhaps even conquering most of the world

and besides, everyone remembers Wilhelm II
 
In other words, Nazi Germany behaves a bit more like Apartheid South Africa or other "Racist" states instead of going down the uber-racist, distopian-mass genocide route. They ain't nice, but they aren't bloodthirsty psychopaths either. (Of course, these laws might only apply to Jews in Western Europe and Germany proper, so that means they might still go crazy in the east. :eek: On the flip-side, however, there's also a possibility that they'll allow for "Aryanizable" Jews in the east to survive, provided they assimilate.)

What about all the other races/people he wanted to exterminate? Slavs, Gypsies, Poles, etm.?
And what about Homosexuals?
 

iddt3

Donor
not necessarily; if germany still went to war with the allies and won the war for whatever butterflied reason (perhaps einstein's contributions let the germans get nuclear weaponry first), then he'd probably be remembered as the grand orchestrator of the war and perhaps even conquering most of the world

and besides, everyone remembers Wilhelm II

Einstein and many of the Scientists are leaving regardless, they're no fans of Militant fascism.
 
No need for snarkiness (if you weren't being snarky, I'm sorry for assuming that you were), Stuka1944 was asking a legitimate question. I myself don't think that Nazism could exist without the Anti-Semitism, Anti-Communism and Racism that fueled it. I do believe that if a slightly saner and more pragmatic Hitler was in charge of the Nazi Party, we could've seen a very different solution to the "Jewish Problem." It wouldn't have been genocide, but it wouldn't have been peaches n' cream either. Imagine, for example, if all the raw materials and manpower that went into organizing the holocaust, building the camps, policing them, and exterminating the prisoners had been diverted to the war. And what would Hitler have done with a few thousand extra men (including all the SS guards)? Certainly, they wouldn't have been treated as well as "Aryan" troops, but their contribution to the war effort would've been invaluable. How many more tanks, aircraft, trains, forts and other things could've been built using the materials used to construct Auschwitz? What if Hitler had sprayed all that Zyklon D he used to gas prisoners to devastate Soviet crops? (Or if he'd gassed their troops ala WWI :eek:) Would a hungrier Red Army have been able to win Stalingrad? The least people can do is ask these questions instead of just shrugging them off as being "ASB." Atleast try to imagine what the consequence of a still-racist (but nowhere near as genocidal) Nazi Germany would've been.

As I said. It's a question that gets asked about once a month by someone who joins this website.

The answers always go in circles and often someone ends up being banned.
 
I know that Hitler's sporadic ideological stupidity led to problems for Germany, but uh, please elaborate.
You already answered your own question. If he'd been a little more pragmatic and listened to his generals and not tried to commit mass genocide and a world war simultaneously, he probably would've won (or atleast come closer to winning than he did).
 
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What about all the other races/people he wanted to exterminate? Slavs, Gypsies, Poles, etm.?
And what about Homosexuals?
Homosexuals would obviously be deemed "Mentally Ill" and would be imprisoned (but not in what we'd call "humane" conditions). Perhaps Nazi scientists would perform experiments on Homosexual prisoners to try to find a "cure" for homosexuality, or maybe (since they're a small enough group) he'd just kill them outright. As for the Slavs, Gypsies, Poles, etc., they'd have been treated in much the same way the Chinese and Koreans were by the Japanese Empire. Basically "there's too many of them to kill, we'll keep them alive to do work for us and perhaps we'll let the best ones integrate into our society." Perhaps set up some Ukranian, Belarusian, Russian puppet governments, etc.
 
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