Admiral Yi Sun-sin is killed during a raid by the nomads sometime in 1582.

Admiral Yi-Sun sin is struck and killed by an arrow during a raid by the nomadic tribes of Manchuria, how does this affect Korean history, especially the outcome of the Imjin war.
 
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I really do not think it would change anything on its own unless it somehow sees Seonjo captured as a butterfly effect. Japanese ships and naval tactics were not up to the task of fighting the Koreans, even if admiral Yi-Sun is dead.
 
Korea is captured by the Japanese, but they fail to mantain territory in China, eventurally the Manchues force the japanese troops out of the peninsula.
 
Korea is captured by the Japanese, but they fail to mantain territory in China, eventurally the Manchues force the japanese troops out of the peninsula.
How long would it take for the Chinese to push them out? after pushing them out what would the relations between the chinese and Koreans be like, the Chinese could bring Korea much closer to them by exploiting their fear of being invaded by the Japanese, especially if the Koreans were poorly treated.
 
How long would it take for the Chinese to push them out? after pushing them out what would the relations between the chinese and Koreans be like, the Chinese could bring Korea much closer to them by exploiting their fear of being invaded by the Japanese, especially if the Koreans were poorly treated.
The koreans would surely be poorly treated, so when korea is liberated the koreans would probably help anyone who fights the japnese and see them as liberators, I think it will be various years before the Japanese are finally expelled. One important thing is that the Ming dinasty will be much weaker after the war.
 
I really do not think it would change anything on its own unless it somehow sees Seonjo captured as a butterfly effect. Japanese ships and naval tactics were not up to the task of fighting the Koreans, even if admiral Yi-Sun is dead.

Korea is captured by the Japanese, but they fail to mantain territory in China, eventurally the Manchues force the japanese troops out of the peninsula.
No korea would have fallen they were going to fall until yi saved them it made sure supplie lines couln't go that far nroth and there navy otl could have stopped them but let there entire navy get captrued and the supplies line to kore would have been too long for them to mantain it
 
The koreans would surely be poorly treated, so when korea is liberated the koreans would probably help anyone who fights the japnese and see them as liberators, I think it will be various years before the Japanese are finally expelled. One important thing is that the Ming dinasty will be much weaker after the war.
well that would cause some problems for the chinese, maybe the nomadic tribes or some other forces invade after some internal strife and take over?

although im interested about the koreans, after they are liberated how different would their society be, they'd been in a period for peace for about 2 centuries excluding raids by nomads and pirates before being invaded and taken over, they'd absolutely up either their military game, or more specifically they'd improve their navy which the Japanese were inferior to in many ways, if they were treated badly like you said they'd want to prevent that from happening again.
 
well that would cause some problems for the chinese, maybe the nomadic tribes or some other forces invade after some internal strife and take over?

although im interested about the koreans, after they are liberated how different would their society be, they'd been in a period for peace for about 2 centuries excluding raids by nomads and pirates before being invaded and taken over, they'd absolutely up either their military game, or more specifically they'd improve their navy which the Japanese were inferior to in many ways, if they were treated badly like you said they'd want to prevent that from happening again.
I expect China to be conquered earlier by the Manchues. And about korea, they will become a much more militarized state with a stronger focus on the navy to prevent japan for trying to invade again.
I wonder how will this affect Japan?
 
I expect China to be conquered earlier by the Manchues. And about korea, they will become a much more militarized state with a stronger focus on the navy to prevent japan for trying to invade again.
I wonder how will this affect Japan?
About what i thought.
thinking about it The Japanese could go 2 paths, either end their plans of an east Asian empire after losing Korea, or build up their own military or navy in an attempt to regain them, maybe another war between Korea and Japan could spark out, possibly after Ming collapses the Japanese could see their chance and strike.
 
about what i thought, The Japanese could go 2 paths, either end their plans of an east Asian empire after losing Korea, or build up their own military or navy in an attempt to regain them, maybe another war between Korea and Japan could spark out, after Ming collapses the Japanese could see their chance and strike.
The second one is a very interesting scenario, a revanchist korea vs Japan, the war could go either way.
 
Korea is captured by the Japanese, but they fail to mantain territory in China, eventurally the Manchues force the japanese troops out of the peninsula.
As vital as Admiral Yi's naval harassment was to starving the Japanese out and forcing peace in both phases of the war, the Japanese had already way overextended their forces in Korea within the first few months. Konishi Yukinaga's forces had marched from Busan to Pyongyang (520 km) within four months, which far outstripped their supply routes by that point, so naval harassment had less of an effect there. Once the Ming intervened, they were promptly evicted due to local numerical disadvantages and lack of supplies, despite the overall Japanese numbers advantage on the peninsula.

Other than that, the Japanese daimyos were at odds with each other and thus were unable to coordinate properly while the countryside were bristling with guerilla armies. They had yet to capture the Western province of Jeolla prior to Ming entrance in the war and the Koreans still had a formidable navy (Joseon ships had better range than the Japanese, who focused on ramming and boarding tactics, and the Joseon navy wasn't wiped out until the second phase of the war where the Japanese were unable to make even half the gain of the previous phase). Once the element of surprise wore off, the war stagnated into stalemate disadvantageous for the Japanese, who were unable to reinforce and supply their troops on the frontlines, both due to naval harassment and the Righteous Armies and guerilla monks in the hills and forests of Korea.

How long would it take for the Chinese to push them out? after pushing them out what would the relations between the chinese and Koreans be like, the Chinese could bring Korea much closer to them by exploiting their fear of being invaded by the Japanese, especially if the Koreans were poorly treated.
That was literally what happened OTL. Part of why the Joseon sided with the Ming against the Manchu despite King Gwanghaegun's attempts to stay neutral was because of the debt they held towards Beijing for sending troops and the Ming Navy to help combat the Japanese during the war (which really didn't work out in the long run).
well that would cause some problems for the chinese, maybe the nomadic tribes or some other forces invade after some internal strife and take over?

although im interested about the koreans, after they are liberated how different would their society be, they'd been in a period for peace for about 2 centuries excluding raids by nomads and pirates before being invaded and taken over, they'd absolutely up either their military game, or more specifically they'd improve their navy which the Japanese were inferior to in many ways, if they were treated badly like you said they'd want to prevent that from happening again.
I expect China to be conquered earlier by the Manchues. And about korea, they will become a much more militarized state with a stronger focus on the navy to prevent japan for trying to invade again.
I wonder how will this affect Japan?
The Joseon did become rather militarised in the 17th century, but because of the Manchu rather than the Japanese. Following the Imjin War, there wasn't any money to fund the military with, not with the countryside razed and the economy in shambles. The navy also decayed due to costs (think late Byzantium and their need for a navy vs their budget) and because relations with Japan normalised rather quickly (trade went back to normal within 9 years of the end of the war). Japan's own internal chaos and the Tokugawa regime precluded another invasion and the Joseon had to focus on the next immediate threat: the Manchu, with whom a navy was of no use.
The second one is a very interesting scenario, a revanchist korea vs Japan, the war could go either way.
Korea's manpower and resource pool is too low to be a serious threat to Japan, regardless of revanchism.
 
The second one is a very interesting scenario, a revanchist korea vs Japan, the war could go either way.
depends if the successor state(s) to Ming get involved, which i doubt for obvious reasons, if the koreans are left on their own then i imagine that unless they get themselves another admiral on the level of Yi, the Japanese would win that fight out, although the Koreans would put up a hell of a fight both during the war and after their conquest if the way the Japanese treated them was well known by the population which would could have a more militaristic attitude if given enough time.
 
No korea would have fallen they were going to fall until yi saved them it made sure supplie lines couln't go that far nroth and there navy otl could have stopped them but let there entire navy get captrued and the supplies line to kore would have been too long for them to mantain it

Admiral Yi alone did not save Korea, and the Japanese navy was fairly crappy, and Yi had no experience in naval warfare before the war. Very few daimyo had actually decent navies, even among the Western clans, and even then Japanese ships relied too much on boarding actions when it came to fighting, and were largely used to inland seas of Japan. The Korean had ships with cannons on them that could outrange the Japanese, who at best had either bows or guns.
 
Admiral Yi alone did not save Korea, and the Japanese navy was fairly crappy, and Yi had no experience in naval warfare before the war. Very few daimyo had actually decent navies, even among the Western clans, and even then Japanese ships relied too much on boarding actions when it came to fighting, and were largely used to inland seas of Japan. The Korean had ships with cannons on them that could outrange the Japanese, who at best had either bows or guns.
he still had a large role in saving Korea, the Koreans had pretty much lost most of their navy after the previous admiral panicked and got it destroyed, without Yi the Japanese would be able to esentially control the seas between Korea and Japan, the Chinese would give them problems but without Yi's leadership along with the Korean navy being non-existent it wouldn't be a guaranteed Chinese win and even if they beat the navy the Japanese army could've overran Korea by then as they wouldn't of had as big of a supply issue.
 
he still had a large role in saving Korea, the Koreans had pretty much lost most of their navy after the previous admiral panicked and got it destroyed, without Yi the Japanese would be able to esentially control the seas between Korea and Japan, the Chinese would give them problems but without Yi's leadership along with the Korean navy being non-existent it wouldn't be a guaranteed Chinese win and even if they beat the navy the Japanese army could've overran Korea by then as they wouldn't of had as big of a supply issue.
That was in the second phase of the war, after the Japanese had been beaten and forced into negotiations in 1594. By the second phase, the Joseon had reorganised their forces and the Ming were prepared to send a far greater force and navy into the Imjin War. The Japanese, even after wiping out the Joseon navy under Admiral Won Gyun, were unable to reach even a quarter of their previous gains in the first phase of the war. By 1597, there was no longer an element of surprise and the Joseon were at no risk of being conquered, unlike in 1592-1593.

True, Yi's leadership was important for blunting the Japanese invasion long enough for Joseon forces to organise and Ming forces to manifest, but saying he alone saved the Joseon discounts the efforts of the thousands of guerillas throughout the southeast, the other admirals and generals, the Ming forces, and the Japanese forces' massive weaknesses and poor cooperation.
 
he still had a large role in saving Korea, the Koreans had pretty much lost most of their navy after the previous admiral panicked and got it destroyed, without Yi the Japanese would be able to esentially control the seas between Korea and Japan, the Chinese would give them problems but without Yi's leadership along with the Korean navy being non-existent it wouldn't be a guaranteed Chinese win and even if they beat the navy the Japanese army could've overran Korea by then as they wouldn't of had as big of a supply issue.

That was the second invasion of coincidentally after the only naval battle the Japanese could win, they still could not match the Koreans in ships or tactics. You are giving far too credit to just one man when it helps that a Japanese invasion of Korea and attack on China with what is essentially a bunch of warlords and their personal armies that could only go so far.
 
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