ACW ends in 1862--does West Virginia still split?

[Evan]

another question pertaining to TTL, same time period: does anyone think Lincoln would go on to serve two full terms ITTL if the war ended earlier, or would he conceivably fall victim to some other form of foul play? (personally, i'm convinced that he would be re-elected since he successfully ended the war, and sooner ITTL than IOTL)

If he wanted to and won the Republican Party's support, I think he'd get elected. The question is whether he would. Totally aside from the personal exhaustion others have pointed out, there was a rather strong tradition dating back to Martin Van Buren of Presidents serving only one term. Lincoln himself had participated in a similar term-limits deal which led him to step down after his single term in the House.

Also, he had strong opposition even inside the Republican Party, both from people who thought him too conservative (such as the faction which would almost nominate Fremont against him in OTL 1864) and those who thought him too radical. It's very possible he could surmount this opposition if he was determined to run - note how he brought his cabinet behind him iOTL. Of course, his very able 1860 campaign manager David Davis was nominated for the Supreme Court in October 1862 (I think that'd happen despite any military PoD.)

So, it could go either way politically. However, I agree that Lincoln wouldn't want to run unless he thinks the country needs him for Reconstruction. Whether that's the case depends mostly on your timeline.

Possibly... but the area had been under the civil jurisdiction of the Restored Government of Virginia, like the rest of the west, and participated, more or less, in the constitutional convention and statehood referendums.

To my surprise, Berkeley County was actually represented in the First Wheeling Convention. But aside from that, none of those three counties were represented in either Wheeling Convention or Restored Virginia's legislature, nor did they vote in the statehood referendum. I don't think they'll join Kanawah ITTL.

 

[CDA]

I would go with a "No". Up until 20 June 1863 the area we know as "West Virginia" was mostly just considered as the Loyalist-controlled portion of the state, whereas the remainder was "under rebellion". If you have an earlier victory, that sense of "apartness" wouldn't have had time to form, and likely the state wouldn't have been split (the main reason for the split having been butterflied away).

Really? Then why did "loyalist Virginia" vote to almost be called the state of Kanawha in Oct. of 1861?

Kanawha was a proposed name for what later became the main body of the U.S. state of West Virginia, formed on October 24, 1861. It consisted of most of the northwestern counties of Virginia, which voted to secede from Virginia after Virginia joined the Confederate States of America on April 17, 1861 at the beginning of the American Civil War (1861–1865). The separation had been approved by the loyalist Wheeling Convention on August 20, 1861. The name of "Kanawha", based on the Kanawha River, was proposed by the convention as the name for the new state.

During the First Constitutional Convention, on December 3, 1861, Harmon Sinsel, of Taylor County, made a motion to strike the word Kanawha from the new state constitution. The discussion regarding the motion revealed concerns of possible confusion between the State of Kanawha and the County of Kanawha within the same state. Additionally, there was an expressed desire among the convention members to reflect their Virginian heritage. After much debate, the motion passed 30-14 and a new name was sought.


During the subsequent discussion, where names such as "Allegheny", "Augusta", "Columbia", "New Virginia", "Vandalia", "West Virginia" and "Western Virginia" were suggested, it was decided that roll would be called and each member of the Convention would answer their name with their preferred name for the new State. If one of the names reached a majority vote, it would be selected as the new name for the State. Upon vote, 30 of the 44 members had selected "West Virginia". Having reached a majority, the name for the new State officially became West Virginia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_of_Kanawha

 

[FleetMac]

Really? Then why did "loyalist Virginia" vote to almost be called the state of Kanawha in Oct. of 1861?



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_of_Kanawha

AHEM. While it's true that there was the Wheeling Convention (two, actually), that wasn't the end-all, be-all of how to administer Loyalist/Unionist/whatever Virginia; the last two-odd years of the war, that territory was administered from Alexandria, and at no point during the war was the official capital of the state ever not claimed as Richmond. In fact, that seems to be a part of WHY the establishment date for West Virginia was set at the date it was.

EDIT: Getting back to the OP (kinda), perhaps Westsylvania would be another option for a *WV analogue that gets resurrected in an early-victory Civil War?

 

[Rich Rostrom]

there was a rather strong tradition dating back to Martin Van Buren of Presidents serving only one term.

Not really. Van Buren ran for a second term in 1840, and tried again in 1844. Pierce tried again in 1856.

Tyler also sought re-election in 1844.

The "tradition" was mainly a Whig doctrine that was never actually applied, since no Whig ever served a full term.

Only Polk and Buchanan actually stepped down willingly.

 

[Evan]

Not really. Van Buren ran for a second term in 1840, and tried again in 1844. Pierce tried again in 1856.

Thanks for the correction; I retract that point. Lincoln's still going to have to be exhausted and face Republican opposition, but he can win it.

 

[oshron]

Thanks for the correction; I retract that point. Lincoln's still going to have to be exhausted and face Republican opposition, but he can win it.

personally, i could kind of see a second Lincoln term ITTL being more that he simply becomes exhausted and ends up coasting on the early end to the Civil War. perhaps more to the effect of a "regent" making more decisions but still more or less leaving it to Lincoln. (remember, this is before the 25th Amendment)

who does everyone think would be Lincoln's VP for a second term ITTL? would he still have Andrew Johnson as second-term VP to try and appease the South, or would he stick with Hamlin, or go with someone else?

 

[Evan]

who does everyone think would be Lincoln's VP for a second term ITTL? would he still have Andrew Johnson as second-term VP to try and appease the South, or would he stick with Hamlin, or go with someone else?

Not Johnson. Johnson was a Democrat tacked on to the ticket thanks to a desperate union of the Republicans with the pro-war faction of the Democrats at a time when the war was going poorly and the Copperheads looked seriously likely to win in 1864. If the war's already won or nearly won by the convention, there's near-zero chance of the "National Union Party" and none whatsoever of Johnson actually getting on the ticket.