ACH/WI: germans defeat the greater poland uprising 1918-1919

In later parts of 1918 the poles rebelled in posen, trying to break away greater poland to join the new poland. The uprising happened at a good time due to the German empire turning into a Republic making it hard for the germans to fight. They would eventually sieze posen and the polish corridor which was confirmed by the treaty of Versailles.

How would the germans defeat the uprising? What would be the effect on Germany and Poland?
 

BigBlueBox

Banned
Wilson's 14 Points had explicitly stated that Poland should have access to the sea, so I don't think that much would change. Poland would still get Posen and the Corridor at Versailles.
 

raharris1973

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What if the U.S. command (Pershing, Wilson) and British command agree to an armistice that requires German retreat only from Belgium, France and Alsace-Lorraine, but not Rhineland? In OTL, Haig would have been content with such armistice terms. What if LG, Wilson and Pershing endorse the idea and tell the French command, Foch and Clemenceau, that if they want any of Germany other than A-L, they are on their own?

Seriously, the commander of the strongest Allied force of the 1918 campaigns, the British Army, was for an easier armistice.

With retreat only to the 1869 border, Germany may be able to resist harsh peace terms and militarily contest Polish uprisings and armed actions. The Allies will endorse Polish self-determination and access to the sea, but not necessarily fight for the exact same border the Poles got at OTL Versailles.
 
What does the OP think would happen from here.
If they go with your idea with the friekorps and all that can be sent to crush the polish can the germans win military yes, but can they win diplomatically much harder. I'll assume giving Posen away would be a good start majority polish and it does appease the allies to an extant. Sea access, tricky Gdansk/Danzig can be held best case scenerio would be a treaty allowing the polish free access to the baltic sea and no tarrifs, etc.

The big thing however is the russian civil war is the Bolsheviks push into a weaker poland germany can go back on willson point (germany defacto controls the land they formalise it now) either offer a deal to poland to stop fighting or to directly help them against the Soviets.
 
Essentially this occurred OTL; Freikorps had essentially smashed them everywhere and were preparing to roll up on Posen itself to finish the job when the Entente intervened. Lloyd George and his advisers on the ground were increasingly Anti-Polish and even Wilson was starting to come to this view as well, at one point threatening the cessation of economic aid after Pilsudski intervened militarily in Galicia. Further issues were the Polish delegation to Versailles generally irritating everyone (including the French) and Anti-Semitic programs within Poland that engendered Western fact finding missions. This also led to the Anglo-Americans, concerned over the fate of Jews and the ethnic Germans, forcing the Poles to sign Minority right treaties.

PoD I'd suggest is that the report, which did lend credence to the fact the Poles were targeting Jews but stopped short of blaming the Polish Government itself, does so. Given the aforementioned Galician dust-up, Wilson probably does cut off aid and Poland's economy does likely collapse. Poles are obviously indignant and thus also fail to sign the minority agreement, resulting in Wilson and Lloyd George taking a Pro-German stance and essentially cutting the Poles off at Posen as far as gaines, as well as a Czech solution* for their sea access via Danzig.

* Czechs essentially got a small district in Stettin from which they could import goods and then send them to Czechoslovakia duty free.
 

raharris1973

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Essentially this occurred OTL; Freikorps had essentially smashed them everywhere and were preparing to roll up on Posen itself to finish the job when the Entente intervened. Lloyd George and his advisers on the ground were increasingly Anti-Polish and even Wilson was starting to come to this view as well, at one point threatening the cessation of economic aid after Pilsudski intervened militarily in Galicia. Further issues were the Polish delegation to Versailles generally irritating everyone (including the French) and Anti-Semitic programs within Poland that engendered Western fact finding missions. This also led to the Anglo-Americans, concerned over the fate of Jews and the ethnic Germans, forcing the Poles to sign Minority right treaties.

PoD I'd suggest is that the report, which did lend credence to the fact the Poles were targeting Jews but stopped short of blaming the Polish Government itself, does so. Given the aforementioned Galician dust-up, Wilson probably does cut off aid and Poland's economy does likely collapse. Poles are obviously indignant and thus also fail to sign the minority agreement, resulting in Wilson and Lloyd George taking a Pro-German stance and essentially cutting the Poles off at Posen as far as gaines, as well as a Czech solution* for their sea access via Danzig.

* Czechs essentially got a small district in Stettin from which they could import goods and then send them to Czechoslovakia duty free.

Nifty little idea here. Do you think Polish losses in the west will be mirrored by Polish losses in the east? (By the way, have you seen my German-Polish and Soviet-Polish map threads and polls on this forum?)

If it is, I can imagine the truncated Poland will be more homogenous and make more of a fetish of ethnic purity and Catholicism. Political power will probably devolve from Pilsudski to Roman Dmowski and his National Democrats (Endeks), such minorities as are left of Germans, Ukrainians, Belarussians and, quite possibly most numerous of all, Ashkenazi Jews have an even harder time interwar Poland, facing frequent pogroms and emigrating in large numbers.
 

raharris1973

Gone Fishin'
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Monthly Donor
Nifty little idea here. Do you think Polish losses in the west will be mirrored by Polish losses in the east? (By the way, have you seen my German-Polish and Soviet-Polish map threads and polls on this forum?)

If it is, I can imagine the truncated Poland will be more homogenous and make more of a fetish of ethnic purity and Catholicism. Political power will probably devolve from Pilsudski to Roman Dmowski and his National Democrats (Endeks), such minorities as are left of Germans, Ukrainians, Belarussians and, quite possibly most numerous of all, Ashkenazi Jews have an even harder time interwar Poland, facing frequent pogroms and emigrating in large numbers.

Adding a map:

Curzon & German corridor & Red  Poland.gif
 
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