ACH: Surviving Aegean state

Wolfpaw

Banned
With a POD of whenever you like, have a state that contains the territory of OTL's Hellenic Republic and the Anatolian Peninsula. It can be run by whatever group in whatever form so long as it exists to the year 2011.

Again, you have your choice of POD. No magic, no ethnic cleansing, and preferably no apocalypses.

Bon chance.
 
Hittite Empire 4evar! <3 <3 <3

OK, somewhat more seriously--either a Byzantine-type East Rome or the Ottomans might be better candidates for this. I take it part of the challenge is that Greece + Anatolia is the entire extent of this state--not too much Balkan or Syrian territory, for example?
 
Hittite Empire 4evar! <3 <3 <3

You REALLY like the Hittites, don't you?

Regarding the challenge... A really easy one would be to have the Byzantines win the Battle of Manzikert and not screw anything up too badly, keeping the Turks in OTL Turkish Kurdistan (You never specified how MUCH of the Anatolian Peninsula).
 
You REALLY like the Hittites, don't you?

Regarding the challenge... A really easy one would be to have the Byzantines win the Battle of Manzikert and not screw anything up too badly, keeping the Turks in OTL Turkish Kurdistan (You never specified how MUCH of the Anatolian Peninsula).

Hey, they're one of my few areas of historical expertise, such as it is. :p

The trick with the Byzantines is going to be coming up with a set of circumstances whereby they retain those borders for the next 700 years or so--certainly not impossible, but it'll probably require some luck on their part.
 
Have Basil II produce an heir, who won't squander his father's successes. With that chain of good emperors, the Empire will be secure through a few bad ones, at least. And further on, it's likely there will continue to be decent Emperors, even if there are gaps between them. IMO, it was largely the Byzantine squandering of the gains of Nikephoros Phokas, John Tzimiskes, and Basil II that lead to the major loss in power, position, and stability.

Or there's the Ottomans. Somehow limit the political power of the Janissaries, and there's much more stability in the Empire, or butterfly away WW1. Without WW1, both the fall of the Ottomans, and the fall of the Czar are at the very least delayed. However, it's very likely there will be a WW1, so perhaps remove Ottoman involvement in it somehow.

Or, and this is a joke, we could have a major crash in Greece's economy, leading to Turkey buying it at some point. :D (Sorry about that.)
 
Or there's the Ottomans. Somehow limit the political power of the Janissaries, and there's much more stability in the Empire, or butterfly away WW1. Without WW1, both the fall of the Ottomans, and the fall of the Czar are at the very least delayed. However, it's very likely there will be a WW1, so perhaps remove Ottoman involvement in it somehow.
World War One would be too late for what hes asking. After the Greeks got their independence, the chances of the Ottomans regaining them back was slim to none, which would mean that the empire wouldn't fulfill the condition of containing all of Modern Greece. Successful Selimian reforms would be the key to having the Ottomans keep Greece, as he would be able to reign in the Beys who were misruling their areas before the locals rise up against them. Thus stopping the Greek and Serbian rebellions before they even started.
 
Or, and this is a joke, we could have a major crash in Greece's economy, leading to Turkey buying it at some point. :D (Sorry about that.)

Hey i used that joke in the greece as switzerland thread a few days back!
that will be 22.50 for using my joke please.. payable in drachmas :)
 
Suggestions

Wolfpaw,
Your specifications correspond to Antigonus diplomatically winning the support of the other Greek states,Rome finds a united Greek front something which the Romans could never have defeated(see Scullard,"Roman History")
The United Greek forces defeat repeatedly the Romans and force them to vacate any holdings they have in Magna Grecia and stay out of Greek affairs.Already Danube is the Northern border of Greece.
Now you can move from there;it is imperative that Chritianity must not be allowed,not to spred but to even enter Greece.Current Ruler helps Sparta out of enormous respect to revive and its training of young(without extremetes) establishes itself throughout the Greek world along with Athenian letters and philosophy:Athens was still powerful and a force to be reckoned with but without Imperial ambitions;Along those lines Wolfpaw the story can move nicely and progress with good relations with its northern and western neighbours to the extend that they can.Someone started a thread with the Athenian Empire,probably a schoolboy,but his knowledge of history(and reality) were saddly lacking.The boy,however,was good in his creative writing. Consult his text regarding certain line of events
.....Apart from that all the field is yours and the ball is at your court.
 
Hittite Empire 4evar! <3 <3 <3

OK, somewhat more seriously--either a Byzantine-type East Rome or the Ottomans might be better candidates for this. I take it part of the challenge is that Greece + Anatolia is the entire extent of this state--not too much Balkan or Syrian territory, for example?
Greece includes,I think and the Greek communities abroad(South Italy and Sicily,Southern Crimea and Pontus) and all Greek Islands including of course Cyprus.Byzantines are excluded due to split national identity crisis(they were Greeks but some stupid westerners call them Easten Romans...) and Ottomans wouldn't have a future in Europe;they survived as long as they did because of the personal short-sighted interests of certain European nations and by lucky chance.their historical destiny was complete extermination,even of the name.
 
World War One would be too late for what hes asking. After the Greeks got their independence, the chances of the Ottomans regaining them back was slim to none, which would mean that the empire wouldn't fulfill the condition of containing all of Modern Greece. Successful Selimian reforms would be the key to having the Ottomans keep Greece, as he would be able to reign in the Beys who were misruling their areas before the locals rise up against them. Thus stopping the Greek and Serbian rebellions before they even started.
Some people express a certain naivete....(no offence meant here to anyone...) Greeks first and Serbians later did not revolt simply because of Ottoman misrule...
 
Some people express a certain naivete....(no offence meant here to anyone...) Greeks first and Serbians later did not revolt simply because of Ottoman misrule...
Then you expect me to believe that nationalistic sentiments seeped in to Greek and Serbian society only a few decades after they were found in Western Europe, despite the fact that both Greece and Serbia were largely illiterate at the time? And that the Serbs appealed to the Sultan for shits and giggles? I hardly think I'm the one being naive.
 
Then you expect me to believe that nationalistic sentiments seeped in to Greek and Serbian society only a few decades after they were found in Western Europe, despite the fact that both Greece and Serbia were largely illiterate at the time? And that the Serbs appealed to the Sultan for shits and giggles? I hardly think I'm the one being naive.
Absolutely not! check the number of Greek uprisings during the period of Turkish occupation! I don't expect you to believe anything,but where did you get that weird notion about nationalistic sentiments?
 
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