As in the title, how can the United Kingdom, with or without the empire, maintain a position of as the primary or secondary world power beyond, the second world war (or equivalent). You must work with a POD of no earlier than 1935, and may not avoid a war with germany. What are britain options and what luck breaks can it have?
ACH: keep britain the second world power (instead of the SU)
- Thread starter Vylon Disigma
- Start date
The USA and USSR are both devastated in a limited nuclear exchange, which Western Europe manages to stay out of.
@Analytical Engine Has got to be UK by its self.
@Thomas1195 Ok seems 1935 is too hard, how about 1919? what are the odds?
@Thomas1195 Ok seems 1935 is too hard, how about 1919? what are the odds?
Since there is no time limit for the PoD besides this being the "After 1900" forum. I don't see it as that difficult to begin with. For a rough draft, go with this:
1. Starting from January the 1st 1900 a small butterfly causes Britain to work closer together with the CANZAC Dominions. Might be nothing more than some talks on a regular basis started for no bigger reason, than because some chaps who went to Oxford together are looking for a way to meet up on a regular basis and charge the tab to the foreign office.
2. When The Great War breaks out Germany goes "Russia first". UK stays neutral for the time being, while anti-Germans start working to manufacture a Casus Belli. However before they succeed the Home Rule Issue boils over, while at the same time many Britons are making money over fist selling stuff to both sides and they have friends in Parliament, too. Result is that Britain stays out altogether while being focused on Ireland.
3. Great War ends in 1917 with a CP victory, whom despite their huge casulties and general exhaustion and war fatigue APPEAR much more powerful than they really are. Meanwhile a compromise with Ireland was worked out giving them more autonomy but not independence. Some voices in Scotland start asking about a similar arrangement for them. Meanwhile the Central Powers Empire scares the UK into intensifying it's relationship with the Dominions.
4. Fast forward 15 years or so and an Imperial Federation composed of Britain, Ireland and the CANZAC is formed. Germany has recovered from The Great War, but is focused on a revanchist USSR and has no interest on getting on Britians bad side. Meanwhile the USofA never had any reason to come out of Isolationism.
A 2nd Great War may or may not happen at this point. But as long as Britain stays out it's in a comfortable position to stand as tall as the winner, especially if Decolonization is handled better than OTL. Some pieces might be invited to join the Imperial Federation, especially with much more British emigration to the colonies sans the WWs others might stay in an Alliance/Customs Union modelled after Mitteleuropa.
1. Starting from January the 1st 1900 a small butterfly causes Britain to work closer together with the CANZAC Dominions. Might be nothing more than some talks on a regular basis started for no bigger reason, than because some chaps who went to Oxford together are looking for a way to meet up on a regular basis and charge the tab to the foreign office.
2. When The Great War breaks out Germany goes "Russia first". UK stays neutral for the time being, while anti-Germans start working to manufacture a Casus Belli. However before they succeed the Home Rule Issue boils over, while at the same time many Britons are making money over fist selling stuff to both sides and they have friends in Parliament, too. Result is that Britain stays out altogether while being focused on Ireland.
3. Great War ends in 1917 with a CP victory, whom despite their huge casulties and general exhaustion and war fatigue APPEAR much more powerful than they really are. Meanwhile a compromise with Ireland was worked out giving them more autonomy but not independence. Some voices in Scotland start asking about a similar arrangement for them. Meanwhile the Central Powers Empire scares the UK into intensifying it's relationship with the Dominions.
4. Fast forward 15 years or so and an Imperial Federation composed of Britain, Ireland and the CANZAC is formed. Germany has recovered from The Great War, but is focused on a revanchist USSR and has no interest on getting on Britians bad side. Meanwhile the USofA never had any reason to come out of Isolationism.
A 2nd Great War may or may not happen at this point. But as long as Britain stays out it's in a comfortable position to stand as tall as the winner, especially if Decolonization is handled better than OTL. Some pieces might be invited to join the Imperial Federation, especially with much more British emigration to the colonies sans the WWs others might stay in an Alliance/Customs Union modelled after Mitteleuropa.
Nazi Germany defeats Soviet Union, USA defeats Japan, USA and UK defeat Nazi Germany. Probably takes longer than the 1945 of OTL.
Why does everyone keep assuming that the federation would have all of the Empire in it?
Without them, it's just a tighter grouping of the white dominions, which isn't nothing, but still lacks the same weight as the US/USSR.
That's not what I meant.
That I meant was: there's no reason why all of the Empire ends up as part of the federation, as opposed to becoming independent as separate countries.
It can be, though. The combined economies of the UK, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and a few other smaller former colonies, possibly even Malaysia and South Africa, is huge. It's certainly a strong contender for second place power, if the USSR is either more isolationist, or gets roughed up so badly by the Germans that it gets de facto quarantined by the Western Allies.
TruthfulPanda
Gone Fishin'
With a 1900 POD IMO UK stays no.1.
A different, smarter WWI (which does not enrich the USA) is all that's needed.
Have all British and French orders which in OTL went to the USA to be directed to the British or French Empires. This will be more costly in the short run but in the long term will keep all the spending "at home" and will return in the form of taxes.
That would depend on the politics of Britain at the time. Probably something like this:
Initial membership:
- United Kingdom
- Ireland - maybe, but only if either home rule sticks, or it remains a dominion instead of becoming a republic
- Canada
- Australia - probably includes Papua New Guinea
- New Zealand
- Newfoundland - if it isn't part of Canada
- Britain's colonies in the West Indies
- Britain's colonies in the Pacific
- Seychelles, Mauritius, Chagos Islands
- Singapore, maybe the rest of the Straits Settlements
- Gambia
- Aden, Socotra
- Malta
- South Africa, Botswana, Lesotho, Swaziland, Namibia
- Southern Rhodesia
- Malaya, Sarawak, Northern Borneo, Brunei
- Sierra Leone
- Trucial States
- British South Arabia - i.e. South Yemen
- Maldives
- Cyprus - assuming that it doesn't unify with Greece
- Ghana
- Nigeria
- Kenya, Uganda, Tanganyika, Zanzibar
- India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, Myanmar, Bhutan - delete as appropriate
- Northern Rhodesia (Zambia), Nyassaland (Malawi)
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