ACH: Germany "looses" WW1 but somehow keeps Alcase-Lorraine

I guess an earlier negotiated peace possibly. It would basically involve Britain abandoning France at the conference so it might require an earlier POD with a less "cordial" alliance ie Britain acting more as a co-belligerent for the sake of Belgium rather then an ally of France.

sorry title was meant to say AHC obviously and I spelled Alsace wrong too
 
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Wilsons fourteen points are harshly applied. So the population can vote to which state they want to belong. The vote comes and the people say: Yay! Germany!
 
France collapses/goes red instead of Russia, is persona non grata at *Versailles, and German retention of AL is counterbalanced by increased German losses in the East?
 
France collapses/goes red instead of Russia, is persona non grata at *Versailles, and German retention of AL is counterbalanced by increased German losses in the East?

Russia collapse didn't stop the Allies from carving off Poland. I think if the people in Alsace-Lorraine vote to stay German, that would be the only way.
 
Russia collapse didn't stop the Allies from carving off Poland. I think if the people in Alsace-Lorraine vote to stay German, that would be the only way.
Poland has quite a bit more national consciousness than Alsace-Lorraine.
 
While I do not see this happening, perhaps they lose to Britain but defeat France?

I don't think that is realistic.

I'm pretty sure if both Russia and France are knocked out then Britain would ask for terms. Keep in mind this isn't WW2.
 
I also think that a plebiscite in Alsace-Lorraine without the expulsion of immigrants since 1871 that goes out in favour of Germany is the best possibility, together with France needlessly and irrationally alienating all other Allies.

Problem is that this would likely require a much earlier POD. If Alsace were made a full member state of the Empire right from the beginning or at least very early, then at the end of WWI it would have a history of almost 50 years of internal autonomy that it would never enjoy within the French system. Furthermore, it would have been more unikely that the Prussian soldiery bosses around Alsaciennes the way they did IOTL when those are not second-class citizens and have an own state to intervene. With those changes I could see a majority in Alsace voting for staying within Germany. Federalism definitely has advantages for minorities with a distinct identity that a centralist state like France cannot offer.
 
Russia collapse didn't stop the Allies from carving off Poland. I think if the people in Alsace-Lorraine vote to stay German, that would be the only way.

The Allies did not create Poland, but merely recognized its independence which it had attained on its own. The only carving they did was appending bits of Germany to a Poland which was already very much alive.
 

BlondieBC

Banned
If Germany was in a good enough position to keep any part of Alsace-Lorraine, then it probably won't be a loss.

Agreed.

Germany would view this as a draw at worst. If they keep the Western borders, then they keep the client states in the east in most scenarios. And if A-H still falls apart, Austria may well join Germany.

As to POD, we basically need any of the dozens of POD with a German win in WW1, but with a small enough dosage that the west can still view the draw as a win.
 
Agreed.

Germany would view this as a draw at worst. If they keep the Western borders, then they keep the client states in the east in most scenarios. And if A-H still falls apart, Austria may well join Germany.

As to POD, we basically need any of the dozens of POD with a German win in WW1, but with a small enough dosage that the west can still view the draw as a win.

The above mentioned scenario where France goes Bolshevik and Britain and Germany retreat in fear and disgust seems fitting. If this ends late in the war, Germany is too exhausted to continue trench warfare and Britain will not be willing to fight the former Ally together with the Germans.
 
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