Ramontxo

Donor
Israel had long said it would be a casus belli. But Egypt and the other arabs had no intention of initiating a major conflict. They were deployed defensively. Nasser knew his actions would likely cause Israel to attack. But his goal was to get the other arabs to rally around him, not start a war.
Closing the access to the sea lanes by military force is an Casus Belli for any nation.
 

Lusitania

Donor
Closing the access to the sea lanes by military force is an Casus Belli for any nation.

This was NAsser great showmanship that he would lead the Arab charge against Israel. So yes closing not only Suez Canal against Israel which he did in 1956 but then closing the straight.
 
Does sound like Iran, with Kurdish and Arab minorities

from wiki
The majority of the Iranian population is formed by the Persians (estimated at between 51% and 65%). The largest other ethno-linguistic groups (accounting for more than 1% of the total population each) are: Azerbaijanis (16–25+%), Kurds (7–10%), Lurs (c. 7%), Mazandaranis and Gilakis (c. 7%), Arabs (2–3%), Balochi (c. 2%) Turkmens (c. 2%).

While true, this is slightly misleading. Lurs, Mazanderanis and Balochi all speak dialects that are mutually intelligible with standard Persian. They are not separate ethnicities but more like regional dialects.

Even the Kurds are also part of the Persian family of languages. This is why Kurdish people in Iran have not had such troubles as in Turkey or Iraq. The main issue in Iran is that many Kurds are Sunni, and less any ethnic difference since their language is related to Persian.

Azerbaijanis and Turkmen are Turkic, but they aren't new to the country and most Azeris are descendents of Persians that adopted Turkic language in the middle ages. Arabs mainly exist in Khuzestan.
 
Israel had long said it would be a casus belli. But Egypt and the other arabs had no intention of initiating a major conflict. They were deployed defensively. Nasser knew his actions would likely cause Israel to attack. But his goal was to get the other arabs to rally around him, not start a war.

Considering Israel got nearly all of it's oil imports through the Straits of Tiran I'd say it was probably a valid Casus Belli.
 
Even the Kurds are also part of the Persian family of languages. This is why Kurdish people in Iran have not had such troubles as in Turkey or Iraq
Being in the same language Family doesn't count for that much, see the Serbs and Croatians.

The few Kurds I've met, don't consider themselves Persians at all, they claim from the Guti or Medians, that have been controlled by the Persians since antiquity, but not Persian. They said it was like calling a Scotsman, English.
Not appreciated at all.
 
The suez crisis was major political victory for the Egyptians but military wise they got destroyed, instead of a political victory of the french and british pulling out and sinai being occupied by isreal could egypt military defeated these actions. How could Egypt defeat the isreali invasion? Could Egypt have stopped the french and anglo invasion?

If they cant whats the best the Egyptian military could have done in the conflict such as stalemate?
what would you do to make the Egyptian do militarly better during the conflict?
The army sucked because they lacked a strong NCO corps (still don't have one), officers had too much of a political role (still do), conscripts are treated like shit (still are), and officers hoard knowledge which poisons the ability of the army to operate machinery effectively under actual battle conditions (still the case).

They actually managed to improve during the Yom Kippur War and were in striking distance of Israel when the US put our thumb on the scales, they could've won if Syria bothered to tackle their army problems or if Jordan intervened (of course, that would mean Israel breaking out the nukes, and who the hell knows where THAT would lead).

Egypt would need to study the structure and function of US and to some extent the Allied European militaries, military culture, and doctrine, and implement reforms to build up a strong, reliable NCO corps (that takes 10 years), reduce the politicization of the officers (challenging), improve treatment of conscripts to improve espirit de corps (this one's easy in theory but requires re-education of the officers), end the hoarding of basic information by officers (doable but again requires military culture reforms and re-education of officers), and adapt to strategic and tactical doctrines that would work well with both the equipment they bought off the Soviets (which would be dumbed-down, shitty versions of actual Soviet tech) and the strategic and tactical situations of the Egyptian state (copying the Soviet military as anyone but the Soviet Union isn't going to work as well since they won't have that massive population and cold land area to fall back on).

essentially, Egypt would need to begin plotting major military reforms as early as the 1930s, which would probably run afoul of the British, and would likely need to test the new army and doctrine in WW2, then secure a greater place at the bargaining table post-war. Which means they could probably get the Suez back by just going to America and promising to be very good anti-communist boys if America (which was already not hugely fond of the British and French colonial empires and only grudgingly kept the Vietnamese down post-war because the French were at serious risk of going over to the Soviets after the whole shebang) would be a loving sugar daddy and strong-arm the Brits into giving it back.

Basically, if Egypt's in a situation where they can win the war militarily, they probably don't need to go to war in the first place.
 
They tried to before they failed the Pakistanis stopped them successfully during the offensives,

The Indians destroyed the entire Pakistani force in the East and took 93,000 prisoners. After that there was no eastern front to tie down Indian troops, so Pakistan was probably lucky the war ended soon.

Thats because the wars ended before they could, not because the Egyptians could stop them.

Well, in '67 and in '73 Dayan opposed trying to take arab capitals like Cairo, Damascus or even Amman. After the war an Israeli said "What do we do west of the canal? Defeat the first army and march on Cairo? Then what? Take Cairo, which could swallow the whole Israel Defense Force and barely notice it?" (lol).

Also again there is something wrong with your military when Pakistani volunteers flying your planes are considered to be the biggest challenge to isreal which they said.

Egypt did have foreign pilots but I don't recall Pakistanis. Iraqi pilots in Egypt fought very well. RJAF pilots were also good.

Im not saying Egypt is a terrible military force

You just said they "suck at warfare" :)
 
Considering Israel got nearly all of it's oil imports through the Straits of Tiran I'd say it was probably a valid Casus Belli.

Sure, but Israel's most important ports are on the Mediterranean. They probably could've imported oil there. Basically Israel seized upon Nasser's actions as a pretext to crush his military.
 
The army sucked because they lacked a strong NCO corps (still don't have one), officers had too much of a political role (still do), conscripts are treated like shit (still are), and officers hoard knowledge which poisons the ability of the army to operate machinery effectively under actual battle conditions (still the case).

You must've gotten that from Pollack. I'm not sure all the pathologies he mentioned are still there now. One or more Egyptians told me of changes.

They actually managed to improve during the Yom Kippur War and were in striking distance of Israel

They never got as far as the line of the defiles (at least not in strength) let alone the old border.

when the US put our thumb on the scales, they could've won if Syria bothered to tackle their army problems

I once blogged on how the Syrians might've done better but that involved a different timetable for deployment.

or if Jordan intervened (of course, that would mean Israel breaking out the nukes, and who the hell knows where THAT would lead).

Jordan did intervene albeit not on its own frontier with the west bank.
 
Sure, but Israel's most important ports are on the Mediterranean. They probably could've imported oil there. Basically Israel seized upon Nasser's actions as a pretext to crush his military.

Israel imported almost all of it's oil from Iran via the straits of Tiran. With Egypt closing the Suez canal as well the only way to get the tankers to Israel would have been sailing all the way around Africa and then through the straits of Gibraltar and then through the entire Med. So really not affordable or economically possible.
 
You just said they "suck at warfare" :)
They do against isreal, also when have they not sucked also suck is different from terrible Egypt could beat most other african countries but not modern.

The Indians destroyed the entire Pakistani force in the East and took 93,000 prisoners. After that there was no eastern front to tie down Indian troops, so Pakistan was probably lucky the war ended soon.
Bangladesh is impossible to defend, tell me how do you defend it? Again pakistan core territory is the west not the east, still never failed to fall.
After that there was no eastern front to tie down Indian troops, so Pakistan was probably lucky the war ended soon.
You do realise the majority of pakistan military is in the west, who also happened to be the strongest part of said military lucky of what again you have no examples of pakistan losing punjab or sind, Egypt should be glad isreal didn't annex the sinai.

Again where is this idea you believe isreal is on the same power level of India. India is china rival, how you can keep comparing Egypt and pakistan when one nation is fighting the next super power and holding its ground while Egypt gets overun along with the rest of its allies fighting a nation thats surrounded by enemies yet still pushes you all back.

Well, in '67 and in '73 Dayan opposed trying to take arab capitals like Cairo, Damascus or even Amman. After the war an Israeli said "What do we do west of the canal? Defeat the first army and march on Cairo? Then what? Take Cairo, which could swallow the whole Israel Defense Force and barely notice it?" (lol).
You do realise that means isreal could smash Egyptian any Egyptian army but due to cairo being so big theres no point to take it. So let me get this straight your loling that Egypt military sucks so much that isreal could march on your capital but not take it as they simply dont have enough people?
Egypt did have foreign pilots but I don't recall Pakistanis. Iraqi pilots in Egypt fought very well. RJAF pilots were also good.
Yet the isrealis only consider the pakistanis a threat who flew the syrian planes as they could put up a fight.

Again what proof is their of egypt being a match to pakistan the arabians dont consider it a match, they go to pakistan. Are nuclear arms prove we are better at development than egpyt. usa, isreal, india all tried stopping us while Egypt failed with there attempt. Are special forces are considered the best in the islamic world. Are intelligence service is one of the best in the world often fucking with mossad (when they look to pakistan) while mossad constantly fucks with Egypt. Egypt proven nothing that they are on pakistani level most of your modern arms come from supplies usa stuff which they would cut if you even kinda move against isreal. (Also one of are pilots has the record for shooting down the most isreali fighter than any other pilots)
 
@starman you still shown nothing that proves Egypt as power equal to pakistan, 60 years ago arabia followed egypt now egypt follows saudi arabia. What has the Egyptian military proven to be a power letting their country get overun and never actaully getting close to victory. You keep blaming Syria and Jorden for egypt failure that in it self proving egypt is not a military power house equal to pakistan as you cant hold back a nation which is smaller, less populated. Even with your cities being far from the border a desert and the suez you still couldn't stop them from reaching them. Lahore is close to the border with no narural barriers next to a larger nation, bigger population and larger military.
 
@starman you still shown nothing that proves Egypt as power equal to pakistan, 60 years ago arabia followed egypt now egypt follows saudi arabia. What has the Egyptian military proven to be a power letting their country get overun and never actaully getting close to victory. You keep blaming Syria and Jorden for egypt failure that in it self proving egypt is not a military power house equal to pakistan as you cant hold back a nation which is smaller, less populated. Even with your cities being far from the border a desert and the suez you still couldn't stop them from reaching them. Lahore is close to the border with no narural barriers next to a larger nation, bigger population and larger military.

Egypt does have one of the better comprehensive air defense nets in the world.
 
Israel imported almost all of it's oil from Iran via the straits of Tiran. With Egypt closing the Suez canal as well the only way to get the tankers to Israel would have been sailing all the way around Africa and then through the straits of Gibraltar and then through the entire Med. So really not affordable or economically possible.

I dunooo..China imports oil from the the distant Mideast. The US imported saudi oil, which was quite some distance away.
 
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