About Luxemburg

Hkelukka

Banned
Inspired by a another thread.

In the post 1945 world, what kind of military should Luxemburg have, up to the present day, if it wanted to have a credible strong national defence.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luxembourg_Army on the army,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luxembourg

On the nation.

Lets assume that the government post 1945 decides to be very determined never again to be invaded like that. And the western allies are very favorable to a military buildup there.

Assuming as well that the population in general wants to maintain a strong natonal defence, on par with most militarized NATO countries of their time.

What kind of force level are we really talking about for a country that small?
 
I imagine it would be very similar to Singapore now. Not very big, but very advanced and very professional.
I think they would have a "we may not win but we will inflict a whole lot more damage than you can imagine"
 

Hkelukka

Banned
I was thinking about it and i'm pretty divided between a large well trained base similar to the Swiss army.

Or

A very small (about 5-10.000) extraordinarily well trained and maintained army. With a strong foreign involvement and constant drills and exercises.

Then I was wondering if they would seek to build fortifications or prefer open combat or guerilla.
 
Any military strong enough to be a deterrent to Luxembourg's much larger neighbors would be beyond the principality's capabilities. Luxembourg's best defense is either nukes or European integration.
 
Any military strong enough to be a deterrent to Luxembourg's much larger neighbors would be beyond the principality's capabilities. Luxembourg's best defense is either nukes or European integration.
Going Cuba-style might work as a deterrent. And by Cuba-style I mean numerous households having automatic rifles.
 

Hkelukka

Banned
Any military strong enough to be a deterrent to Luxembourg's much larger neighbors would be beyond the principality's capabilities. Luxembourg's best defense is either nukes or European integration.

I strongly disagree. It is possible, albeit extremely unlikely and basically pointless.

Considering they have roughly 150.000 "fit for military service" people in their country and a very high GDP/capita they do have the technical ability to do so, it is ofcourse entirely stupid to do so but stupid is, in world politics, quite often what is actually done.

Now the way I see it is if for some reason they use their good diplomatic abilities and position to get the various NATO countries to compete for contracts and for some reason they get remarkably good contracts time and again, combined with a very strong focus on their military they could easily have a proffesionally armed force with over 100.000 reservists. Not a strong deterrent ofcourse but much stronger than 800 they have now.
 

HMS Erin

Banned
A military is useless for Luxemburg. If there's ever a determined invader, Luxemberg will be conquered. For example, under a "Ruskies swarm over the border-WWIII" scenario, whatever effort Luxemburg makes in a conventional war will be trivial in comparisson to that of the major powers in the war. Even if the army is large enough to cause the invader to bypass Luxemburg, the ultimate fate is never in question because the invader can come back later. Guerilla warfare will only destroy the country. Nukes only invite catastrophe. No, the best course of action is the path of least resistance and cause as little damage to Luxemburg's infrastructure and avoid unnecessary casualties. NATO will come to the rescue eventually, and if it doesn't, then Luxemburg should accept its fate to avoid as much damage as possible.
 
A military is useless for Luxemburg. If there's ever a determined invader, Luxemberg will be conquered. For example, under a "Ruskies swarm over the border-WWIII" scenario, whatever effort Luxemburg makes in a conventional war will be trivial in comparisson to that of the major powers in the war. Even if the army is large enough to cause the invader to bypass Luxemburg, the ultimate fate is never in question because the invader can come back later. Guerilla warfare will only destroy the country. Nukes only invite catastrophe. No, the best course of action is the path of least resistance and cause as little damage to Luxemburg's infrastructure and avoid unnecessary casualties. NATO will come to the rescue eventually, and if it doesn't, then Luxemburg should accept its fate to avoid as much damage as possible.

But they might want to help NATO's defenses against a hypothetical Soviet invasion.

Not having a military at all is a great way to invite an invasion.
 
Reallistically they have only 2 options: diplomacy or a Force de Frappé (with the same ruthless All or Nothing doctrine).

Schweitz works because they can retreat to the mountains - and hold out there for years (well, it hasn't been tried since the late middle ages, so who knows :)).

Luxenbourg is way too small and geographically uncomplicated for that.

Something like 90% of the country is in artillery range from at least one country - including ALL cities.
Luxembourg city is app 8km from France and 12km from Belgium & Germany.

Another little detail is that according to wiki 30% of the population is classified as immigrant (162k of 511k). In a war / crisis some hard decision will have to be made quickly, with all the mistakes, confusion, lost work and resourceproblems that would follow.

Also arming the general population in an area that in the not too distant past has seen francs-tireurs - and the treatment of armed civilians as such - may not have a happy outcome.
 
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