A Worthwhile Belgian Army?

Both in WWI and WWII Belgium, for better or worse, has often been on the short end of the stick. Much of WWI was fought on Belgian soil, and in WWII the whole country was conquered by the blitzkrieg.

Now, is there any way to beef up the Belgian military prior to WWI, to the point where Germany might think twice or thrice about using the Schlieffen Plan? I doubt that Belgium could ever manage to build a military to rival France, Germany, or the UK, but could a strong, revamped Belgian army and an alliance with the UK possibly suffice?

What would the effects be? IIRC the French and Belgians didn't get along too well before WWI, so how would the French feel about the Belgians arming?
 

maverick

Banned
The only way is to have big ass fortresses...and they did have those...so what they need is something similar to the Dutch "let's flood our own goddamned country for shit and giggles and to piss the Germans" strategy...but without water, since the Belgians have no way of copying that from the Dutch...
 
The only way is to have big ass fortresses...and they did have those...so what they need is something similar to the Dutch "let's flood our own goddamned country for shit and giggles and to piss the Germans" strategy...but without water, since the Belgians have no way of copying that from the Dutch...

There has to be other ways than big ass fortresses and flooding their own country. Heck, there was a thread on here a while back that got a lot of play that specifically dealt with Denmark resisting German invasion in WWII. I mean, c'mon, if Denmark can feasibly do it, Belgium can.
 
Both in WWI and WWII Belgium, for better or worse, has often been on the short end of the stick. Much of WWI was fought on Belgian soil, and in WWII the whole country was conquered by the blitzkrieg.

Now, is there any way to beef up the Belgian military prior to WWI, to the point where Germany might think twice or thrice about using the Schlieffen Plan? I doubt that Belgium could ever manage to build a military to rival France, Germany, or the UK, but could a strong, revamped Belgian army and an alliance with the UK possibly suffice?

What would the effects be? IIRC the French and Belgians didn't get along too well before WWI, so how would the French feel about the Belgians arming?


The only reason to invade Belgium is to pass through on the way to someplace else.
So blow up all every bridge, overpass, switch, and culvert in every road in the country twenty minutes after the invasion starts.
So it takes months to repair stuff if somebody does invade, so what? They aren't going to invade if the roads aren't there.
 
Well, the Belgian Army fought bravely in WWI even they are ill- equipped with modern heavy equipments and the Belgian did actually blow up dykes to flood the Flander Plains to create the 'National Redoubt'. I think that the WWI Belgian army can certainly be considerly worthwhile as they continue to fight on French soil even if their country has been occupied. As for the WWII Belgian Army, well, that's another matter...

Also, the Belgian did built big fortresses, but the long lead time of building means those that were operational at the start of WWI were built to outdated designs and couldn't stood up to modern German heavy artillery.
 
There has to be other ways than big ass fortresses and flooding their own country. Heck, there was a thread on here a while back that got a lot of play that specifically dealt with Denmark resisting German invasion in WWII. I mean, c'mon, if Denmark can feasibly do it, Belgium can.

It was for sticking with the WWI 5 division army till 1940 which would require larger German forces to take Denmark which it would in the end. It might just spoil the German conquest of Norway. Denmark would be able to delay it.

Belgium is another matter - as already mentioned they did a creditable job.
The delaying action of the Belgian cavalry division 1914 is a good example. Perhaps a mix of better infantry training linked with fortesses. There are quite a number of water obstacles in Belgium that could have been used by a more mobile and better trained army.
And they did use flooding in Flanders to stop the German advance.
 

Redbeard

Banned
The OTL battle of France showed, that once the French Army left the old WWI doctrine of a continious frontline and instead deployed in depth in checker board formation in flankless hedgehog positions, the attacker would suffer much higher casualties, and the defender would rarely dissolve just because armoured columns had penetrated the line. That left a very tedious and bloody job for the infantry, and meanwhile the panzers in effect were cut off.

When implemented in early June (after Weygrand had taken over) it was too late, the French Army already was bled pale, but if we imagine some foresighted Belgian Army commander pre-war reading Fuller, Guderian and de Gaulle - understanding them, and next thinking out the right ways to counter such tactics - we perhaps could have a Belgian Army giving the Germans serious trouble. After all the Belgian Army counted (IIRC) some 25 Divisions, a significant force if it has the right tactics. The investment in new weapons need not be heavy, the old 75mm field gun M98, of which the Belgians had plenty, would double splendidly as an anti-tank gun. It is mainly a question of a change of doctrine - which requires lots of determination and some time.

The problem might be though, that if the Germans still choose to put their "Schwerpunkt" in the Ardennes, Belgium risk being cut off as in OTL, which would make the whole effort pointless.

If however, the German Armygroup A gain very little advance vs. the Belgians and/or with heavy losses, I seriously doubt if Hitler has the nerve to let Armygroup B race on to the Channel for fear of a flank attack. And once Armygroup B stops, the French army gain the time to implement their cumbersome but powerful doctrines - basically making the campaign a repeat of WWI - Hitler won't survive that for many months.

Regards

Steffen Redbeard
 

Markus

Banned
Now, is there any way to beef up the Belgian military prior to WWI, to the point where Germany might think twice or thrice about using the Schlieffen Plan? I doubt that Belgium could ever manage to build a military to rival France, Germany, or the UK, but could a strong, revamped Belgian army and an alliance with the UK possibly suffice?

Building a military to rival France, German; not enough money or manpower!
An alliance with the UK they already sort-of had. The UK was one of the powers guaranteeing Belgiums neutrality.

In WW2 their military was large enough(22 divisions) and well armed enough(except planes and tanks), just not well led. The two divisions in the Ardennes didn´t wait for the first wave of french reinforcements(3 Div+3 Bde) but withdrew without a fight, but not without destroying roads and bridges on the western(=french) side, too. Result: The reinforcements could not reach the prepared positions before the Germans.
 
They had some cool dog-pulled guns Iin 1914 IRC

And armoured cars

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 
Last edited:
Belgium advances her decisions to rearm by @3 months. Add @100 tanks and several fighter squadrons. Still means nothing unless Belgium returns to the French alliance. If THAT happens in 1939 and the French have dug in properly...
 
A better Belgian army

Let's see. Keeping the French alliance would be the first thing. Of course the spectacle of France selling the Czechs down the river didn't help that, though uncertainty about the ability to go through Belgium in the event of a war probably didn't help in terms of the French decision-making process prior to Munich.

If King Leopold III of Belgium had died in the car crash that killed his wife and severely injured him in 1935 or if King Albert hadn't died in 1934, Belgium might have stayed in the French alliance, . A neutral Belgium in a war between France and Germany just wasn't going to happen, so there really was no upside from Begium's point of view to playing the neutrality game. All it meant was that at best more of Belgium would become a battleground.

Of course King Leopold also took Belgium out of the war, in opposition to his ministers. That didn't help the Belgian army's reputation a whole lot. It also made the French and British positions in Belgium totally untenable, not that they were great shape before that.

In terms of weapons, Belgium would have been somewhat better off if the French AMC-34/AMC-35 series tanks had worked well enough to be built in the intended quantities. Belgium had ordered 25 AMC-34 tanks, but the French canceled it in favor of the AMC-35. Belgium eventually ended up with 25 AMC-34/35 turrets and less than a dozen usable AMC-35 tanks. The AMC-35 never worked to the satisfaction of the French army and they never accepted it into service, though a few got into the fighting toward the end of the Battle of France when the French were really desperate for tanks.

The AMC-35 had the potential to be a pretty nice little tank. It had a 2-man turret, unique among French tanks. Get it working reasonably well, fill the initial Belgian order for 25, and then give a follow-on order for another 50 or so to equip a mechanized brigade and--well you still don't have much. Of course if it happened to be at the right place at the right time a mechanized brigade could have had an impact.

Now if the French built several hundred AMC-35s instead of the equivalent number of H-35s for their cavalry units, or especially in addition to the H-35s, then that could make a difference. The H-35 just wasn't a good match for cavalry units. The AMC-35 had the potential to be considerably better. And if the French had been able to re-equip another couple of their cavalry divisions as mechanized divisions (DLMs) the Germans would have had a much more interesting time of it in May/June 1940. Of course a DLM built around the AMC-35 wouldn't be as powerful as one built around the S-35, and there is no guarantee that the French would have enough other vehicle (trucks, ammunition carriers, etc.) to mechanize two more cavaly divisions even if they had the tanks. And of course all of this goes well beyond the idea of a stronger Belgian army.
 
Top