A World Without Mohammed

Valdemar II

Banned
Interesting update, the German settler in Poland is quite interesting aspect in OTL the German expantion that way only began in the late 11th century, and was a result of a mix of overpopulation in Lower Lotharingen and new farming technics, this early expantion could easy be a result of the large scale influx of Seinish refugees to the Rhineland and the Netherlands. In OTL the Germans usual spread in easten Europe by taking up unused land, like forests and swamps (surperior drainage methods), this was supported by the local Slavic (yes Slavic and their heritage is oblivious among the East German nobility in surnames ending in -ow*), Danish and Germans nobles, who gave the settlers tax exceptions and large scale freedom, while the local Slavic population was slowly made into serfs by the nobles (or ended up as farmhands on German farms). The free German peasants ended up with a higher birthrate, thanks to greater access to food security and they had the agricultural technics to better use the land, so they slowly grew to majority (through Slavic was still spoken among segments among the serfs to the 16-18 century).
If the same thing happen here we will see opposite demograpic changes of the early discussed, with the West Slavs north of the Carpathian Mountains becoming integrated into a Saxon/German(East Frankish) identity.

To what religion Poland will convert, Papalism is the only realistic option, their domain is to open to a East Frankish/Danish crusade especially after it had been shown to work in Britain.

*Example von Bülow, von Ranzow (Rantzau) and von Barnekow.
 
The reason I posted this quasi-Papal crusade update was that it was sounded good although I was unsure about the plausibility. Really what I have done is give an ATL William the Conquer a religious motivation for invading and conquering Britain. I thought that the Papacy would devote a lot of resources to this idea because it would diverted the Danish attacks away from Europe and keep ATL the Northmen from their wars with 'Papal' Duchies. But an 'Orthodox' Britain that continues under Anglo-Saxon rule might be more probable, if you think so then let me know and I will change the timeline.

In terms of religious flashpoint:
*Rhineland (Eastern Francia and Bavaria). Particularly fierce fighting
*Eastern Germany (Paganism, Orthodoxy and Papalism). Rather chaotic between all parties
*Southern Iberia (Imperial-sponsored Visigoths and the Duchies of Southern Francia). Not very intense, the Duchies of Southern Francia spend most of their time fighting each other (and the Carolingian king) and the Visigoths are far too devoted to trade and holding their positions in Iberia.
*Lombardy (internal politics between pro-Papal and pro-Orthodox parties) Delicate peace with Lyon and Constantinople with the Papacy at Lyon is too pre-occupied with the Vikings to worry about Italy

Any thoughts?

 
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Valdemar II

Banned
The reason I posted this quasi-Papal crusade update was that it was sounded good although I was unsure about the plausibility. Really what I have done is give an ATL William the Conquer a religious motivation for invading and conquering Britain. I thought that the Papacy would devote a lot of resources to this idea of a British invasion because it would diverted the Danish attacks away from Europe and keep ATL Normandy from his wars with 'Papal' Duchies. But an 'Orthodox' Britain that continues under Anglo-Saxon rule might be more probable, if you think so then let me know and I will change the timeline.

In terms of religious flashpoint:
*Rhineland (Eastern Francia and Bavaria). Particularly fierce fighting
*Eastern Germany (Paganism, Orthodoxy and Papalism). Rather chaotic between all parties
*Southern Iberia (Imperial-sponsored Visigoths and the Duchies of Southern Francia). Not very intense, the Duchies of Southern Francia spend most of their time fighting each other (and the Carolingian king) and the Visigoths are far too devoted to trade and holding their positions in Iberia.
*Lombardy (internal politics between pro-Papal and pro-Orthodox parties) Delicate peace with Lyon and Constantinople but the Papacy of Lyon is too pre-occupied with the Vikings to worry about Italy

Any thoughts?


Sounds good.

To the whole Poland problematic in my earlier post, there's one aspect even if it end up (Low) German, it doesn't need to end up part of East Frankia, the ironic of a independent German-speaking Poland is almost too funny from OTL perspective.
 
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What about the Finns? I'm thinking that if, ITTL, the Danes are more interested in spreading southward, that leaves something of a vacuum in north-west Scandanavia. A vacuum that the (presumably pagan) Finns could very well fill in.
Although that "vacuum" arguably existed in OTL as well, and the Finns did not take much advantage of it. So I don't see why that would be any different ITTL.
 
How about a religious split in Poland?

Poland was split into various sub-states several times in OTL. If you pull off something like that ITTL, you could have a Catholic West Poland (Poland) and an Orthodox East Poland (Mazovia)... ;)
 
I had planned to submit my Byzantium update at this time but the drudgery of life and work has conspired against me. Unfortunately I must take a short interregnum from this timeline until at least mid September. If any distinguished member of this forum would like to contribute to this ATL in my absence you have my full permission. Although I would ask you to drop me an email before you do so as I have some rough ideas about where I want this TL to go. I want to thank the forum for their participation in this project and I look forward to continuing the TL in September.

And remember:To rebel in season is not to rebel’
 
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