For the Mini that's easy, the much maligned Mini Clubman was a reskin of the original carried out by Roy Haynes to reduce the number of body panels and reduce the production costs. This was the approach Haynes had learnt at Ford to ensure cars were profitable, I think it's a real shame that Haynes didn't get a chance to do more with the Maxi or to implement his ideas for spinning a family of cars off the Marina chassis, he produced proposals for an MG coupe and even a small Jaguar!
A "What-If" British Motor Industry Scenario
- Thread starter Masked Grizzly
- Start date
For the Mini that's easy, the much maligned Mini Clubman was a reskin of the original carried out by Roy Haynes to reduce the number of body panels and reduce the production costs. This was the approach Haynes had learnt at Ford to ensure cars were profitable, I think it's a real shame that Haynes didn't get a chance to do more with the Maxi or to implement his ideas for spinning a family of cars off the Marina chassis, he produced proposals for an MG coupe and even a small Jaguar!
Certainly not having to have Hillman Imp engine blocks cast in Linwood before being sent to Coventry for final assembly before being sent back to Linwood for installation would help but you still end up with the fact that the end product, the Hillman Imp, is a pile of crap.in the end that's what killed the British Motor Industry, poorly designed products that failed to find a market.
A lot of people liked the Imp. If the build quality was better, the reputation would've been much greater.
There is practically near limitless possibilities on stillborn prototype cars though sticking with British cars for a minute, there were also plans to produce an Austin-Healey 4000 powered by a 4.0 Rolls-Royce FB60 6-cylinder capable of putting out around 175-270 / 300+ hp. Though a less well-known engine is the Daimler V8 from the Majestic Major that should have powered more cars and been used in a hypothetical rival to the AC Cobra. - http://www.ewilkins.com/wilko/ah4000.htm
Funny enough, I was reading up on the stillborn 3rd generation Corvair clay models the other day in the following link that were planned to be produced without the flat-6. Fwiw, if the upcoming Smart Forfour / Renault Twingo is any indication, we might be seeing the rear-engined rwd configuration becoming more common in small cars (due to the trend of downsizing engines, reducing weight and safety regulations). - http://blog.hemmings.com/index.php/tag/xp-892/
Are you referring to this unsanctioned CX prototype? Definitely sad, especially since Peugeot fired any Citroen designer that dared to produce quirky Citroens. - http://www.citroenet.org.uk/prototypes/projet-e/projet-e.html
I agree with you on the Ford Pinto that should have received the 2.3 Turbo, despite being born here in the UK. Another issue though is the over-strict and seemingly pointless emissions standards that sapped the power from US market cars, just imagine for example a Pinto with a 2.8 Cologne V6 that like in the European Ford Capri produced 132-160 hp instead of 90-103 hp in the US.
From what I've read up on the net, carmakers behind the Iron Curtain also had countless modern potentially world-beating prototypes that were not produced due to lack of cash and being under Communist rule.
The saddest of all the Eastern Bloc / Soviet carmakers was Tatra that would have probably taken the fight to Western carmakers in some scenario where Czechoslovakia remained a capitialist country or divided like Germany was post-WW2 with a capitialist Czech Republic and a communist-ruled Slovakia.
I got news for you: if you honestly believe the turbine was practical for automotive use, you deserve the whitecoats...
As far as I can tell, its area of strength would have been on interstate/open road travel, certainly not for stop-and-go, etc.
The reading I did about Chrysler's testing of turbine-powered cars (http://www.allpar.com/mopar/turbine.html http://www.turbinecar.com/66history.pdf et al) showed them to be fairly practical, and they were even getting semi-decent miles-per-gallon on them.
The one Chrysler turbine ground vehicle that did end up being manufactured got something like 0.6 miles per gallon,
http://www.allpar.com/history/military/M1-tanks.html(For what it's worth, for a sixty-ton vehicle, I think 0.6 mpg isn't that bad. What would that be on a ludicrously simple scale, 18 mpg for a two-ton vehicle?)
It's not about fuel economy, it's about throttle response. Turbines are ideal for steady-rpm use. Against diesel in trucks, even then, turbines are too complicated & expensive to be really competitive. In trains, maybe...modelcitizen said:As far as I can tell, its area of strength would have been on interstate/open road travel, certainly not for stop-and-go, etc.
The reading I did about Chrysler's testing of turbine-powered cars (http://www.allpar.com/mopar/turbine.html http://www.turbinecar.com/66history.pdf et al) showed them to be fairly practical, and they were even getting semi-decent miles-per-gallon on them.
The one Chrysler turbine ground vehicle that did end up being manufactured got something like 0.6 miles per gallon,
(For what it's worth, for a sixty-ton vehicle, I think 0.6 mpg isn't that bad. What would that be on a ludicrously simple scale, 18 mpg for a two-ton vehicle?)
Turbines were tried in trains, too - General Electric's Veranda and Big Blow series of Bunker Oil-fueled Gas Turbine-Electric locomotives served the Union Pacific railroad well, but high fuel costs ultimately killed it.
What could save British Leyland after it has been merged in '68?
Spartan Mini's into India, if it can be done, seems a smart move but there has to be more.
Lord Stokes 'crash course' introduction system seems counterproductive.
No doubt BLMC is going to face challenges in the 70s like many companies but they don't necessarily need to fall apart.
Imagine a world where the Top 5 Auto Manufactures are Toyota, GM, Volkswagen, Hyundai and British Leyland!
Edit: WI - In 1973/1974, Lee Iacocca is fired from Ford Motor Company by Henry Ford II for putting 'Jap engines' under Ford hoods, with the Mazda and wanting to expand it with Honda. Iacocca replaces Lord stokes after the poor showings with the Morris Marina and Austin Allegro.
Spartan Mini's into India, if it can be done, seems a smart move but there has to be more.
Lord Stokes 'crash course' introduction system seems counterproductive.
No doubt BLMC is going to face challenges in the 70s like many companies but they don't necessarily need to fall apart.
Imagine a world where the Top 5 Auto Manufactures are Toyota, GM, Volkswagen, Hyundai and British Leyland!
Edit: WI - In 1973/1974, Lee Iacocca is fired from Ford Motor Company by Henry Ford II for putting 'Jap engines' under Ford hoods, with the Mazda and wanting to expand it with Honda. Iacocca replaces Lord stokes after the poor showings with the Morris Marina and Austin Allegro.
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The cars end up looking like relatives of the Mustang, Lincoln Mark III* and so on. This isn't a bad thing, if you like cars with long hoods and short rear decks sharing mechanicals with more prosaic brethren. Could be fun, and at least it wouldn't be the disaster it was in otl for British industry.
* From Wikipedia:
Edit: as amusing as its genesis was, the Mark III was quite a looker,
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In order to create a scenario where an alternate British Leyland is successful, you would still have to streamline the range and discontinue a few brands so that models are not stealing sales from each other (though there is the possibility of the discontinued brands living on outside of Europe as rebadged cars). This is partly the reason why I personally prefer BMC and LMC / Leyland remaining seperate competitive entities, as that would create a scenario where brands are less likely to be discontinued and both carmakers end up thriving.
I would also have a successful BL adapt the Mini to K-Car regulations in Japan, which fwiw was already popular there without being a K-Car or if not the Mini, make use of the 9X to give BL a foothold in the K-Car market.
As for the rest of the range, its not that simple without sacraficing a few brands down to either Austin, MG, Rover and Land / Range Rover or Morris, Innocenti, Triumph and Jaguar / Daimler in order to create a successful British Leyland.
Ooo.
I was also thinking that he could help sort out the various marques BLMC is stuck with and arrange proper badge engineering, streamlining a great deal? Also he'd be ahead with better quality control, fuel efficiency, and people movers.
Electrics may be a problem still...
Good point, will try and sort it out...
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Interesting. So it's basically two groups with roughly mirroring types of brands? Makes sense. Cuts down internally on competition for resources and duplication of effort whilst giving them a someone to compete against, also means that if one side makes a complete balls up of something the other only has to come up with a decent competitor to pick up a fair share of the market and it stays with a domestic company.
Combine it with others suggestions of not making the same car at different sites or operating them in illogical places simply for political reasons and you could have a fighting chance. I'm trying to remember, I think it might have been Rover, but didn't some companies in the past have the crazy situation where they would start work on producing a car but after a certain point have to ship it down the road to another factory to finish it off? Consolidation and modernisation seem to be the key, but how you get that I don't know. Perhaps rather than nationalising or hopelessly throwing money at the companies to keep them afloat, which worked oh so well, an earlier government could offer low interest loans for companies that could come up with sensible modernisation plans?
Unless you can have them avoid the problems they ran into developing the RB211 and resultant cash crisis leading to nationalisation I think they would probably try and remain apart from the two proposed groups, and without the nationalisation I don't there's really a driver to separate the two divisions or bow out of either industry. As for the others without knowing too much about them I'd guess they'd go pretty much as in our timeline unless you introduce some points of departure for them to change things.
I am no expert on aircraft though it is worth mentioning that Rolls Royce did collaborate with BMC on a few different projects with the 4.0 6-cylinder Rolls Royce-powered Vanden-Plas Princess 4-litre R being the only result of that short-lived collaboration. - http://www.aronline.co.uk/blogs/con...otypes/in-house-designs-rolls-royce-projects/
As for the underdogs of the British Motor Industry, it is possible that things would remain unchanged in a scenario where British Carmakers are thriving though than again the success of the big car companies may trickle down to the small-fry or cause the big carmakers to attempt to swollow them up completely, ultimately resulting in the formation of another albeit smaller British carmaker behind BMC, LMC / Leyland and Rootes along the lines of say Reliant, Jensen and Alvis as a very rough example.
I bring up Reliant due to the stillborn 4-wheelled prototypes, particularly the Reliant FW11 that ended up forming the basis of the Citroen BX. - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reliant_FW11 and http://www.sporting-reliants.com/Prototypes.htm
Certainly BL could have been as big as Toyota or VW are today, it did have many strengths when created, Jaguar, MG, Rover, Triumph and the truck and bus business were among the most succesful and well regarded in their markets. The problems lay almost entirely with the Austin-Morris volume car unit and this was what ultimately sank the ship.
I've been thinking about this over the last few days and based on AR Online's archive this is the scenario I've come up, I'd be interested in people's opinions, good or bad!
In 1962 Leonard Lord steps down as BMC boss to be succeeded by the aforementioned Joe Edwards. He's well regarded by the workforce and although BMC is still plagued with strikes as per all of British industry at this time, he manages to implement some changes in working practices. BMC continues to lose money due to strikes and warranty claims, the takeover of Jaguar to form BMH goes as per OTL but by 1966 the company is in serious trouble, again as OTL Roy Haynes is recruited from Ford and tasked to design a new range of cars, the first product will be the Maxi, for cost reasons the decision to use the Landcrab's centre section is still made but Haynes persuades Edwards to let him design all new body panels for the car hiding its origins, the Aquilla concept is too radical for this time and is probably not capable of being mass produced but it shows what could have been done with the Maxi chassis. If the Automotive Gods are smiling, the E-Series prototypes suffer crankcase failures in testing due to vibrations from the gearbox in the sump necessitating a redesign into an end on arrangement. Edwards and Haynes also devise a future marketing strategy for Austin and Morris ending badge engineering, again if we're lucky they hit upon the strategy that Stokes and Harry Webster came up with IOTL of Austin being a more radically styled marque with Morris as the more conventional brand
designed to fight Ford and Vauxhall. They will each have two associated brands, Austin-Healey and Vanden Plas for Austin and MG and Wolseley for Morris, each being a sporty and upmarket trim level, think of Ford's XR and Ghia brands, Riley is discontinued. A saloon version of the Maxi will be developed for sale as the Morris Major.
Edwards devises a future model strategy for BMH, IOTL all it had under development at the time of the merger was the Maxi, hence the Marina's rushed development. He also identifies an urgent need to modernise the production plants and reduce employee numbers to get BMH back into shape. News of "The Edwards Plan" is leaked in 1967 causing an outcry from the unions, Edwards approaches the Government asking for a loan to oversee the modernisation plan, say £50 million, industry Minister Tony Benn is deeply concerned at the level of job losses but is equally worried about BMH's perilous position, as IOTL he considers a merger with LMC might be the best solution.
At Leyland things have gone as per OTL except that after the takeover of Rover Stokes and Webster have bitten the bulletin and canned Triumph's V-8 telling them to adopt the Rover engine for the Triumph Stag, this will take some time for production to be expanded but the eventual V-8 Stag will be a stunning success. When he receives Benn's offer Stokes takes a much harder look at BMH and is shocked at how bad a state it's in, when he first visited Longbridge he said it looked "Half Finished!" However he sees the huge potential in the deal so he drives a much harder bargain, he insists on the Government agreeing to the loan and demands he gets full control of the business so Lyons can't protect Jaguar to the detriment of Rover and Triumph. Benn and Edwards agree to these terms, Lyons either resigns or goes along grudgingly.
Upon completion of the deal, Stokes becomes CEO and Edwards as Chairman, the Maxi/Major is looking good in testing, the car's God awful gear change has been rectified before launch. It is released in early 1969 as OTL and proves highly popular, the Morris saloon proving a better hit with more conservative British buyers while the Austin hatch sells better in Europe. Work is underway on the Marina, as OTL it will use the Minor's chassis but it will get the McPherson strut front suspension that Haynes always wanted thus preventing it being launched with dangerous understeer. The Marina wasn't actually a bad car, BL sold nearly 250,000 in one year and it was their biggest seller for most of the 1970's, its bad reputation comes from the fact that it was forced to live on long past its time because its intended replacement, the ADO77 project was cancelled in the wake of BL's bankruptcy and then it was morphed into the Ital
It's success also sees approval granted grot Haynes' Project Condor which gives birth to an MG Coupe that proves popular in America.Haynes also modifies the Landcrab as he proposed and it too sees a sales pick up. Work now begins on the crucial replacements for the Mini, the ADO74, and for the best selling ADO16. Given the importance of the latter Stokes and Webster take a keen interest in the design, they chose Harris Mann's concept and request that it be a hatchback. With the E-Series not being the big lump of an engine as IOTL it will not distort the car's design which proves highly popular in clinics. When BL's accountants press for the Marina's heater to be fitted, Stokes, anxious to keep what seems like a potential success overrules them and orders the ADO16's heater to be carried over. The Allegro is launched in 1973 after an intensive testing programme that irons out several design faults, the Quartic wheel idea is dropped during development, it is greeted with enthusiasm by the press and becomes a big sales success, the oil shock sees a move towards more economical cars which the Allegro is well placed to exploit.
Now BL's cars will still be assembled in an atmosphere of industrial terrorism, unless Wilson hasn't shafted Barbara Castle over In Place of Strife in which case you 're looking at a radically different 1970's Britain. They will still be unreliable but even IOTL contemporary Fords, Renault's and Fiats were just as likely to leave you stranded at the roadside. The difference is that these three cars won't have got the terrible early reputation they did due to things like the Maxi's hit or miss gear change, the Marina's understeer and the Allegro's poor styling so they will have a much better public image leading to better sales and thus potentially avoiding BLMC's OTL collapse.
Feel free to blast away!
I am no expert on aircraft though it is worth mentioning that Rolls Royce did collaborate with BMC on a few different projects with the 4.0 6-cylinder Rolls Royce-powered Vanden-Plas Princess 4-litre R being the only result of that short-lived collaboration. - http://www.aronline.co.uk/blogs/con...otypes/in-house-designs-rolls-royce-projects/
As for the underdogs of the British Motor Industry, it is possible that things would remain unchanged in a scenario where British Carmakers are thriving though than again the success of the big car companies may trickle down to the small-fry or cause the big carmakers to attempt to swollow them up completely, ultimately resulting in the formation of another albeit smaller British carmaker behind BMC, LMC / Leyland and Rootes along the lines of say Reliant, Jensen and Alvis as a very rough example.
I bring up Reliant due to the stillborn 4-wheelled prototypes, particularly the Reliant FW11 that ended up forming the basis of the Citroen BX. - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reliant_FW11 and http://www.sporting-reliants.com/Prototypes.htm
Have to admit I don't know an awful lot about Reliant but that looks a very tidy design, you can really see the Citroen in it!
Rolls could well have been swallowed up by BMC had those collaboration projects come to fruition. This wouldn't have prevented BMC's slow demise and Rolls would probably have been sold off as the parent company's troubles mounted.
Alvis is a really good WI, had Rover's P6BS prototype made it into production it's likely it would have been given an Alvis badge, I did see an ATL on the AR Online site of a surviving LMC that had Alvis developing into a super car brand, a sort of British Ferrari or Lamborghini. That would have been very interesting to see!
Iaccoca is, among other American car builders, a sultan supreme of badge engineering. I mean, damn.
Below, the K Car, in a few of its variations,
Certainly BL could have been as big as Toyota or VW are today, it did have many strengths when created, Jaguar, MG, Rover, Triumph and the truck and bus business were among the most succesful and well regarded in their markets. The problems lay almost entirely with the Austin-Morris volume car unit and this was what ultimately sank the ship.
I've been thinking about this over the last few days and based on AR Online's archive this is the scenario I've come up, I'd be interested in people's opinions, good or bad!
In 1962 Leonard Lord steps down as BMC boss to be succeeded by the aforementioned Joe Edwards. He's well regarded by the workforce and although BMC is still plagued with strikes as per all of British industry at this time, he manages to implement some changes in working practices. BMC continues to lose money due to strikes and warranty claims, the takeover of Jaguar to form BMH goes as per OTL but by 1966 the company is in serious trouble, again as OTL Roy Haynes is recruited from Ford and tasked to design a new range of cars, the first product will be the Maxi, for cost reasons the decision to use the Landcrab's centre section is still made but Haynes persuades Edwards to let him design all new body panels for the car hiding its origins, the Aquilla concept is too radical for this time and is probably not capable of being mass produced but it shows what could have been done with the Maxi chassis. If the Automotive Gods are smiling, the E-Series prototypes suffer crankcase failures in testing due to vibrations from the gearbox in the sump necessitating a redesign into an end on arrangement. Edwards and Haynes also devise a future marketing strategy for Austin and Morris ending badge engineering, again if we're lucky they hit upon the strategy that Stokes and Harry Webster came up with IOTL of Austin being a more radically styled marque with Morris as the more conventional brand
designed to fight Ford and Vauxhall. They will each have two associated brands, Austin-Healey and Vanden Plas for Austin and MG and Wolseley for Morris, each being a sporty and upmarket trim level, think of Ford's XR and Ghia brands, Riley is discontinued. A saloon version of the Maxi will be developed for sale as the Morris Major.
Edwards devises a future model strategy for BMH, IOTL all it had under development at the time of the merger was the Maxi, hence the Marina's rushed development. He also identifies an urgent need to modernise the production plants and reduce employee numbers to get BMH back into shape. News of "The Edwards Plan" is leaked in 1967 causing an outcry from the unions, Edwards approaches the Government asking for a loan to oversee the modernisation plan, say £50 million, industry Minister Tony Benn is deeply concerned at the level of job losses but is equally worried about BMH's perilous position, as IOTL he considers a merger with LMC might be the best solution.
At Leyland things have gone as per OTL except that after the takeover of Rover Stokes and Webster have bitten the bulletin and canned Triumph's V-8 telling them to adopt the Rover engine for the Triumph Stag, this will take some time for production to be expanded but the eventual V-8 Stag will be a stunning success. When he receives Benn's offer Stokes takes a much harder look at BMH and is shocked at how bad a state it's in, when he first visited Longbridge he said it looked "Half Finished!" However he sees the huge potential in the deal so he drives a much harder bargain, he insists on the Government agreeing to the loan and demands he gets full control of the business so Lyons can't protect Jaguar to the detriment of Rover and Triumph. Benn and Edwards agree to these terms, Lyons either resigns or goes along grudgingly.
Upon completion of the deal, Stokes becomes CEO and Edwards as Chairman, the Maxi/Major is looking good in testing, the car's God awful gear change has been rectified before launch. It is released in early 1969 as OTL and proves highly popular, the Morris saloon proving a better hit with more conservative British buyers while the Austin hatch sells better in Europe. Work is underway on the Marina, as OTL it will use the Minor's chassis but it will get the McPherson strut front suspension that Haynes always wanted thus preventing it being launched with dangerous understeer. The Marina wasn't actually a bad car, BL sold nearly 250,000 in one year and it was their biggest seller for most of the 1970's, its bad reputation comes from the fact that it was forced to live on long past its time because its intended replacement, the ADO77 project was cancelled in the wake of BL's bankruptcy and then it was morphed into the Ital
Haynes also modifies the Landcrab as he proposed and it too sees a sales pick up. Work now begins on the crucial replacements for the Mini, the ADO74, and for the best selling ADO16. Given the importance of the latter Stokes and Webster take a keen interest in the design, they chose Harris Mann's concept and request that it be a hatchback. With the E-Series not being the big lump of an engine as IOTL it will not distort the car's design which proves highly popular in clinics. When BL's accountants press for the Marina's heater to be fitted, Stokes, anxious to keep what seems like a potential success overrules them and orders the ADO16's heater to be carried over. The Allegro is launched in 1973 after an intensive testing programme that irons out several design faults, the Quartic wheel idea is dropped during development, it is greeted with enthusiasm by the press and becomes a big sales success, the oil shock sees a move towards more economical cars which the Allegro is well placed to exploit.
Now BL's cars will still be assembled in an atmosphere of industrial terrorism, unless Wilson hasn't shafted Barbara Castle over In Place of Strife in which case you 're looking at a radically different 1970's Britain. They will still be unreliable but even IOTL contemporary Fords, Renault's and Fiats were just as likely to leave you stranded at the roadside. The difference is that these three cars won't have got the terrible early reputation they did due to things like the Maxi's hit or miss gear change, the Marina's understeer and the Allegro's poor styling so they will have a much better public image leading to better sales and thus potentially avoiding BLMC's OTL collapse.
Feel free to blast away!
Where do Triumph, Jaguar / Daimler, Rover / Land Rover and Innocenti fit in in the ATL and in the case of Triumph, Rover and Jaguar / Daimler, how do you prevent overlap and keeping internal rivalries in check?
So in place of the E-Series, you are going with the alternate B-Series (including the stillborn 106 hp 2.0 as well as the 2.4 “Blue Streak” 6-cylinder capable of 120 hp in performance trim) being updated into the OHC B-Series as a stopgap before being replaced by the alternate related O/M/T-Series (that would have included 6-cylinder versions)?
I agree with the Rover V8 in the Stag, alternate Allegro and the Capri-rivalling Project Condor Coupe (though instead of selling the Americanized Condor in Europe, I would have it restyled once with the Italianate proposal or maybe twice for non-Romance/Latin speaking countries in Europe based on another Condor proposal), the Maxi/Major I am not so sure.
Fwiw, Donald Healey would have probably not given his consent to having his name appropriated by BL when he left for Jensen (creating the Jensen-Healey), so both Austin and Morris would have had to share the MG brand, the same for John Cooper that would have also led to the alternate Mini Cooper S being rebadged as an MG in the post-Cooper era.
ADO74 was an inferior replacement for the Mini, though it might have worked as a small Triumph below the Dolomite (since ADO74 mostly resembled a TR7 by the time it was canned) and allowed them to take advantage of the oil shock.
Selling the rebodied Innocenti Mini (with more bodystyles, 5-speed gearbox and OHC A-Series) would have given BL a stopgap Mini-replacement that would also allow BL to clean up during the oil shock, giving BL the means to develop ADO88 / Metro (albeit with more bodystyles, final updated OHC A-Series with 8-Port Head, Twin-Port Injection and 16 valves as well as a suitable gearbox allowing the MG Metro Turbo to reliably realize its potential 120-130 bhp output) that like the real-life Rover Metro (R6) that replaced the original Metro, would have had Hydragas suspension that was front/rear interconnected from the start giving the alternate Metro class-leading handling instead of being interconnected side-to-side as in the original that resulted in a compromised final product.
A Mini that was one-step ahead of the Italians and French rivals, would have allowed BL to retain its dominant position by the time it was rebodied to become the Innocenti Mini (assuming the original Mini was a hatchback). - http://www.aronline.co.uk/blogs/fac...erminis-why-the-italians-beat-us-by-a-decade/
The alternate ADO88 / Metro, would have in-turn led to the AR6 being produced (ideally with R6X styling). Pre-dating the advanced AR6, an Aluminium Metro was even developed. - http://www.aronline.co.uk/blogs/concepts/concepts-and-prototypes/in-house-designs-aluminium-metro/
On the Engine front without the E/S-Series and Triumph V8, BL have the following potential engines to play with:
- A-Series – Plus various updates / advances such as diesel, aluminium, 8-Port Head, Twin-Port Injection, OHC, 16v along 2-cylinder and as in OTL turbocharged versions
- B-Series – Plus various updates (OHC) and 6-cylinder versions
- C/D-Series (6-cylinder) – The D-Series is a stillborn redesigned C-Series engine that is around 29% lighter and also spawned a 2.0 4-cylinder.
- 9X/"DX"-Series – An advanced 750-1500cc (plus 100 bhp 1300 V6) stillborn A-Series replacement
- Jaguar XK6 - unchanged from OTL
- Daimler V8 - Would have been developed a bit and spawned a 3.5 and 5.0 version along with the real-life 2.5 and 4.5
- Jaguar V12 - From a 5.3 to a 7.0
- Jaguar V6/V8 - stillborn prototype based on the Jaguar V12
- Rover V8 – with latter versions possessing 32 valves, project Iceberg diesel and including 5.2 litre versions
- Rover V6 – based on Rover V8, would likely range from a 2.6/2.8 to a 3.5 twin-turbo (see Jaguar XJ220 in the case of the latter)
- Rover SD1-Six – Had unrealised development potential - http://www.aronline.co.uk/blogs/cars/rover/sd1-rover/engines-rover-sd1-six/
- Triumph Slant-Four – Had it been properly developed, it could have led a similar path to the related Saab engines by producing turbo versions.
- O-Series – Would have entered production much earlier to replace OHC B-Series and along with alternate Perkins Prima diesels (1.6, 2.0, etc) included a (140-177 hp) turbo version as in OTL as well as 1.4-1.8 versions plus 6-cylinder versions.
- M/T-Series – Would have replaced the O-Series and with enough development, have been produced until 2005 though alternate L/G-Series diesel could be produced for a bit longer.
- K-Series –Has the potential to range from a 0.66 / 1.0 3-cylinder to a 3.6/4.0 8-cylinder though in real-life due to cost-cutting and lack of cash, anything above 1400cc would have had questionable reliability.
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