A weird Rhodesian thing I saw...

MacCaulay

Banned
Just a quick note on the Biafran war. South Africa did send military advisors to Biafra at the behest of a number of black African states. This was more to do with Vorster's policy of looking for African allies than anything else. The Rhodesians were also indirectly involved through Jack Malloch and his notorious Air Trans Africa. I struggle to find any real benefit for these countries getting involved in Biafra other than trying to make political friends. Biafra wasn't the issue, rather the countries that supported them. At the same time, the Federal Nigerian government was also fiercely anti-SA and anti-Rhodesia.

I think that's what it boils down to. When it came down to who Rhodesia and South Africa fought, it really seemed that they were very cognizant of fighting both for what they considered "their homes" and of the proxy aspect of it.

I remember that when I first started looking into the Bush War and Border War, I went into it thinking "oh, all those Rhodesians are a bunch of racists and they just picked up a bunch of guns because they wanted to kill black people", like it was a country of Klansmen or something.
And the more I read on it, the more I'm starting to think that while there's definitely this racial aspect to it (and a rather large one at that), to say that the white Rhodesians weren't almost rabidly anti-Communist might be a big stretch.

The more I look into the society of that country, the more it reminds me of some places in America; Appalachia, perhaps. It's hard to define how I can understand it, but I think I do. Understanding isn't validation, but I think I understand it.
 
Regarding Pookie-there was an article about it in Military Modelling around 20 years ago. The vehicle is about 12 ft high and is basically 4 ballooon tyres, air cooled VW 1300cc engine off a Beetle, a V hull and then just a small cockpit as high up as they could with a small roof (corrugated steel methinks). The superstructure was from whatever came to hand including scaffolding. Several shotguns at the front all fired by a piece of string...
 
The more I look into the society of that country, the more it reminds me of some places in America; Appalachia, perhaps. It's hard to define how I can understand it, but I think I do. Understanding isn't validation, but I think I understand it.

Look, I'm a white South African and an Afrikaner as well (probably one of the most hated nations on earth at one stage) and even I don't quite understand the mentality of the South Africans (the Rhodesians were slightly different but the influences were the same) during that time! Granted I'm too young to really have any first-hand knowledge. Some of the influences from that time still exist today though.

If I could simplify it to a ridiculous extent then I can explain white Africans' mentality (in the past and to some extent now) as follows. It has always been a case of finding a way for whites to survive as a nation in Africa. There is no denying a large measure of racism among the working classes but the intellectuals, politicians and leaders were a hell of a lot more sophisticated than the outside world has given them credit for. Due to the history of exploitation (and make no mistake the whites knew/know they exploited the blacks) and antagonism the whites were convinced the only way their way of life would survive is if they were in charge of their own affairs (There was a genuine fear of blacks). Apartheid was an attempt at doing this. Believe it or not Apartheid was actually a step forward from the Rhodesian system. In Rhodesia everybody had the vote but due to property qualifications most blacks were disenfranchised. This was the case in SA pre-1948. The main idea behind Apartheid was to make it possible for the whites to say that they were only governing THEIR areas of SA and that the blacks were governing their own areas and for that reason the blacks did not need the vote in white SA. Although this sounds stupid now, the initial idea was perhaps not as evil as it is now made out to be. Unfortunately of course very little decent land was set out for the blacks and the whole thing was a bit of a farce (I'm really over-simplifying here of course). In any case as events were to prove survival was possible under majority rule. At the same time though some of our forefathers' fears have come true. Integration is whittling away at the unity of the Afrikaners as a nation.

Anyway to get back to my and your point, SA and Rhodesia's military adventures were ALL determined by their political ambitions which were quite simple: To prevent their tiny white capitalist African nations to survive the tide of communist inspired black Africa. Any foreign adventure they undertook had to have some direct benefit to their own security.

If you really are interested in what shaped the Afrikaners' mentality then I must recommend the book "The Afrikaners - Biography of a People" by Hermann Giliomee. It taught me a lot about myself actually! Of course Rhodesian mentality probably isn't far removed from English-speaking white South Africans' mentality (which in itself is very similar to Afrikaner mentality except that it was shaped by British values in the Victorian era) and this is also explored to some extent in the book.
 
I don't know anything about Kenya. Could the white inhabitants of the East Africa Protectorate have done something similar as their brethren did further south?
 

MacCaulay

Banned
Look, I'm a white South African and an Afrikaner as well (probably one of the most hated nations on earth at one stage) and even I don't quite understand the mentality of the South Africans (the Rhodesians were slightly different but the influences were the same) during that time! Granted I'm too young to really have any first-hand knowledge. Some of the influences from that time still exist today though.

If I could simplify it to a ridiculous extent then I can explain white Africans' mentality (in the past and to some extent now) as follows...

Thank you very much for that. I appreciate getting more insight into it, it's something I'm trying to understand. Thanks for putting that book up!

I don't know anything about Kenya. Could the white inhabitants of the East Africa Protectorate have done something similar as their brethren did further south?

I actually put up a WI about that earlier: the Mau Mau Rebellion was sparked because some of the local black population felt that the whites may declare independence, but from everything I've been able to find it doesn't seem likely.

There's a possibility, but it's not likely. You'd need a British government in the 50s that's REALLY pro-settler, and pro-independence for the settlers; because the native industry isn't there during the early 50s for the settlers to even maintain a suitable war economy.

They'd either need backing from the British or the South Africans. And the South Africans had their own issues at that point.
 
I don't know anything about Kenya. Could the white inhabitants of the East Africa Protectorate have done something similar as their brethren did further south?

The white population in Kenya was politically and economically very powerful in the colony but they were a tiny minority. There were fewer than 70,000 whites in Kenya by 1960, or less than 1% of the population. Even in Nairobi the white population was only around 10% of the population.

To complicate matters not only did the whites in Kenya have to deal with a black majority but a much larger Asian community. With over 176,613 Asians (70% Gujarati, 20% Punjabi, 10% Goan), they outnumbered whites 3 to 1.
 
The white population in Kenya was politically and economically very powerful in the colony but they were a tiny minority. There were fewer than 70,000 whites in Kenya by 1960, or less than 1% of the population. Even in Nairobi the white population was only around 10% of the population.

To complicate matters not only did the whites in Kenya have to deal with a black majority but a much larger Asian community. With over 176,613 Asians (70% Gujarati, 20% Punjabi, 10% Goan), they outnumbered whites 3 to 1.


Nice necro!

You might be interested to read Mac's Kenyan timeline that he created, probably as a result of this thread. He is still updating it too and it is an entertaining read.

https://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=182458
 
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