A very strange tower in Frederikstad Norway

This is something I didn´t know about.

Currently I´m living in the small town Frederikstad a few km from Oslo. It´s a beautiful town with an old town from 17th century. (A danish fortress). It seems to have had an importance in the past as a trading post.

Anyway in 1999 apparently they built their new cityhall and discovered ruins from 23 a.d. These ruins included a wooden tower and a column. The column told the story of Felix Scopolus, a roman soldier who had been sent to upper Germania to fight for Augustus. After losing a battle he and his men came to this place and built a town. For some reason, maybe because they weren´t able or didn´t want to, they didn´t return to Rome but instead built a small community which included the natives of the former village.

I thought my girlfriend was hoaxing me when she told me about this, but when I saw the site of the dig as well as the sign I was intrigued.

The sign said: It was previously not thought Romans had reached this far north. (No shit). Apparently the column is still being investigated but in Italy by experts. The sign also said they´d build a museum around the discovery once the researchers were done with the material.

Amazing huh? Did anyone know about this?
 
No...this is intriguing indeed. I seem to remember there were theories about the Norse gods being influenced by Roman concepts. I did hear that there were theories about a minoan influence on the Kongsberg silver mines.
 
No...this is intriguing indeed. I seem to remember there were theories about the Norse gods being influenced by Roman concepts. I did hear that there were theories about a minoan influence on the Kongsberg silver mines.

Is it Thor Heyerdahl that came up with the minoan theories?;)

Well, I guess what this changes is that I would no longer scream ASB if there would be a scenario with roman outposts in Scandinavia.
 
No...Heyerdahl belived in a small migration from Azov at the Black Sea. Bit sad, his earlier work were much better supported.

I don't think there is much doubt that there was some influence from the Romans, you couldn't live in what even then was a maritime and trading area in that loacation and not know of the Romans.

There have been suggestions made earlier that the Norse Gods were actually romans who settled in Scandianvia. Normally in works of fiction, as I remember it.

That the silver from Kongsberg ended up with the Minoans seem to be well established. The question is how many trading steps t took it to get there.
There have been claims that an inscription found in the stone near the mines is a sentence in Minoan (linear A? I don't remember what it is called) The claim is contested as I remember, as the inscription is very worn.

There is also a theory that the runic writing is based on the Minoan script. While proposed by a serious scholar in the area, the claim is not taken seriously by others in the field, I think.

Perhaps Leo knows more about it?
 
It's generally accepted that Danish chieftains served as mercenary's with the late roman army, as every type of roman sword have been found in Denmark.

The latest theory state that chieftains as far as Denmark was part of Romes client's to guard the empires' borders.

The idea of Rome would be very well known in Norway due to the proximity to Denmark and the sea-borne trade network.
 
It's generally accepted that Danish chieftains served as mercenary's with the late roman army, as every type of roman sword have been found in Denmark.

The latest theory state that chieftains as far as Denmark was part of Romes client's to guard the empires' borders.

The idea of Rome would be very well known in Norway due to the proximity to Denmark and the sea-borne trade network.

Yes, and the Vik area was culturally a part of Denmark through the viking period and earlier if I´m correct.

So I wouldn´t think it preposterous to imagine that Norwegians had heard of Romans. Of course they´d have. I´d imagine that since even steppe nomads further away as well as Han China had heard of Rome the Norwegians would know of Rome.

But an actual outpost in Norway, that´s breaking news to me. (Although admittedly Felix Scopolus was just acting on his own it seems and not really representing the empire it self).
 
There have been suggestions made earlier that the Norse Gods were actually romans who settled in Scandianvia. Normally in works of fiction, as I remember it.

That the silver from Kongsberg ended up with the Minoans seem to be well established. The question is how many trading steps t took it to get there.
There have been claims that an inscription found in the stone near the mines is a sentence in Minoan (linear A? I don't remember what it is called) The claim is contested as I remember, as the inscription is very worn.

There is also a theory that the runic writing is based on the Minoan script. While proposed by a serious scholar in the area, the claim is not taken seriously by others in the field, I think.

Perhaps Leo knows more about it?

Yes. Hmm... I doubt we had ships going all the way from Crete to Norway. But in a few steps, sure.

Although maybe, can´t rule it out.
 
No...this is intriguing indeed. I seem to remember there were theories about the Norse gods being influenced by Roman concepts. I did hear that there were theories about a minoan influence on the Kongsberg silver mines.

Weren't the Norse and Roman gods just both descendant from some common Indo-European set of Gods?


This is interesting anyway, I've never heard it before.
 
I visited Fredrikstad in 2005 at the end of the Tall Ships Race and never heard anything about it at the time. I would have liked to have seen it. A p[icuresque town but they can't organise crew parties. I heard of a local legend about a pirate who operated from the island in the harbour but can't find anything on any websites.

I don't think the Romans coming this far north is that earth shattering. Ships would have been blown off course
 
I visited Fredrikstad in 2005 at the end of the Tall Ships Race and never heard anything about it at the time. I would have liked to have seen it. A p[icuresque town but they can't organise crew parties. I heard of a local legend about a pirate who operated from the island in the harbour but can't find anything on any websites.

I don't think the Romans coming this far north is that earth shattering. Ships would have been blown off course

It´s easy to miss. It´s on the hill right behind the city hall but since it isn´t actually a tower but just a circle in the ground there´s not much to see except for the sign explaining why someone was digging there.

In any case Frederikstad hasn´t really done a lot to promote this, which is strange. I thought Norwegians loved to boast:D
 
It´s easy to miss. It´s on the hill right behind the city hall but since it isn´t actually a tower but just a circle in the ground there´s not much to see except for the sign explaining why someone was digging there.

In any case Frederikstad hasn´t really done a lot to promote this, which is strange. I thought Norwegians loved to boast:D

I thought Scandinavians hated boasting?

But this is indeed the kind of thing small towns usually love.
 
I remember reading that in the period before 400 AD, the climate was much warmer and more humid, and southern Scandinavia could potentially support Romans and their crops, so this is not completely surprising to me. Still, the potential of a Roman Norway is too cool for words.
 
I remember reading that in the period before 400 AD, the climate was much warmer and more humid, and southern Scandinavia could potentially support Romans and their crops, so this is not completely surprising to me. Still, the potential of a Roman Norway is too cool for words.

Scenario:

Maybe a cool TL could be made about this. Maybe a more succesfull roman expansion in Germany leads them to go further north. A fortress are built in the Oslo vik area as well as in southern Sweden.

Then when Germans revolt the scandinavian part remains loyal. (Mostly because Romans haven´t bothered with taxating them all that much and because the population is lower then anywhere else leading them to be less resisting).

The Romans control them very loosely and remain uninterested. They merely keep two or three towns protected and benefit a little from the trade in the area. Enough to send ships once in a while.

While this doesn´t change anything for the empire itself it has a huge cultural impact on Scandinavia.

In the 4th century the romans withdraw leaving Skane and Oslo area to be invaded by other scandinavian small kings. (Much like in Britain).

However Scandinavian christianity has already set foot, the latin alphabet has already dominated over the runic alphabet, and the society is much more open to a more authoritarian kings.

Basically no Viking age as we know but something completely different. (Still expect expansion due to demographics but a very different cultural impact).
 
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