A very German coup: Part 1, the rise of the Führer

[Hunter W.]

Introduction

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With the conclusion of the 1938 Munich agreement there was a collective sigh of relief from both Germany and Britain and France, but now Adolf Hitler had his eye on Poland which contained the small League of Nations mandate or "Free City" Danzig and other territories that contained small German minorities. Great Britain and France had a defence pact with the Polish which obligated them to the defence of the Central European power. By July 1939 plans had been devised for a invasion and to merge East Prussia a province that was virtually landlocked by the Danzig corridor parallel to Polish border. This worried some generals most notably Ludwig Beck, and others who feared his jingoistic rhetoric would led Germany into an necessary war. Poland who had existed under years of humiliation from their Russian and Prussian masters were not about to candidly hand over their only access to the Baltic sea, Hitler dispatched Joachim von Ribbentrop to Moscow to negotiate with his once loathed enemy, the Soviet Union. Upon landing in Stalin's Russia an agreement was hatched out that Poland (if invaded) would be divided between the two powers and the Baltic states for the time being would be under Soviet administration giving Stalin a free hand to do so. The United Kingdom and France though horrified began likewise to secretly prepare for hostilities. However Hitler was unaware that a plot was being hatched in the highest echelons of the Whemacts command structure, and would very nearly bring down the Nazi behemoth.

If you want to hear more please say below.
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[New Cleo Genesis]

Yes I do have terrible grammar skills due to the complications of aspergers, so do not inform me of issues with the structure of the text,​

Well then you get a proofreader, no?

 

[stubear1012]

I am interested in seeing how this timeline develops.

 

[Hunter W.]

Well then you get a proofreader, no?

If anyone wants to that would be very kind

 

[Michel Van]

i'm curious for more...

 

[Nazi Space Spy]

If anyone wants to that would be very kind

Plenty of people will offer, I'm sure. I'd offer but frankly my own grammatical skills still leave something to be desired. You came to the right place, though, this is a great community.

 

[King of the Uzbeks]

Watching this.

 

[Hunter W.]

Part I: Feinde des Staates

Hans Oster had secretly the previous year attempted to organize a coup against the Führer, and to some success had officials and military leaders who secretly supported his efforts. Prominent figures such as Ludwig Beck (Army general Staff), Walter von Brauchitdsch (Commander in Chief of the Army). Franz Halder also secretly joined this secret movement also disillusioned with the Fuhrers rhetoric about Poland. It was essential that Erwin von Witzleben (Commander of the Brandenburg military district) was to be a trusted ally to allow a complete seizure of the highest offices in the Reich. British intelligence services had showed interest in the planned coup, to many of the conspirators it was paramount that the French and the British government's make a firm stand on Poland to give the impression of urgency, this would decide the success or failure of the plot. Some of the more apprehensive conspirators were concerned that German troops may align with the Fuhrer out of the immediate fear of execution if the plot failed. Hans-Jürgen von Blumenthal would lead a party of soldiers to seize the Reichkanzlei and either capture or kill Hitler, any official who refused to join or relinquish their power was to be arrested, if need be shot. Then the discussion moved on to whom would become the immediate successor of the Fuhrer, Heindrich Himmler would also need to be arrested as the military feared the ferociousness of the SS. But by August the 24th a coup attempt was looking hopeless.

Current conspirators:
Hans Oster
Ludwig Beck
Walter von Brauchitdsch
Franz Halder
Erwin von Witzleben
Hans-Jügenn von Blumenthal

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[rommel12]

More

 

[Soulbound]

moar pls

 

[ArtisticCritic]

Part I: Feinde des Staates

Hans Oster had secretly the previous year attempted to organize a coup against the Führer, and to some success had officials and military leaders who secretly supported his efforts. Prominent figures such as Ludwig Beck (Army general Staff), Walter von Brauchitsch (Commander in Chief of the Army). Franz Halder also secretly joined this secret movement also disillusioned with the Fuhrer's rhetoric about Poland. It was essential that Erwin von Witzleben (Commander of the Brandenburg military district) was to be a trusted ally to allow a complete seizure of the highest offices in the Reich. British intelligence services had showed interest in the planned coup, to many of the conspirators it was paramount that the French and the British government's make a firm stand on Poland to give the impression of urgency, this would decide the success or failure of the plot. Some of the more apprehensive conspirators were concerned that German troops may align with the Fuhrer out of the immediate fear of execution if the plot failed. Hans-Jürgen von Blumenthal would lead a party of soldiers to seize the Reichkanzlie and either capture or kill Hitler, any official who refused to join or relinquish their power was to be arrested, if need be shot. Then the discussion moved on to whom would become the immediate successor of the Fuhrer, Heinrich Himmler would also need to be arrested as the military feared the ferociousness of the SS. But by August the 24th a coup attempt was looking hopeless.

Current conspirators:
Hans Oster
Ludwig Beck
Walter von Brauchitsch
Franz Halder
Erwin von Witzleben
Hans-Jügen von Blumenthal

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Yeah, I don't really see a coup being possible by Germany's invasion of Poland. OTL, von Brauchitsch and Halder were not too opposed to the initial invasion of Poland. Later on, Halder even acknowledged that it would be fruitless to kill Hitler of the consequences it would bring Germany overall. Even though Halder admitted that he sometimes felt like shooting Hitler personally, he still kept up to his position. It wasn't until Case Blue that Halder was convinced that Hitler was toxic to the war effort and von Brauchitsch was discredited by then. The only real possibility I see of a early coup is if Hitler does not postpone Case Yellow because of rain and has German troops carry it in November. And if Germany botches it up, then a coup would be meaningful to launch.

(On a sidenote, please check on your spelling. I know you have Asberger's and so do I. So I feel for you.)

 

[Hunter W.]

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Yeah, I don't really see a coup being possible by Germany's invasion of Poland. OTL, von Brauchitsch and Halder were not too opposed to the initial invasion of Poland. Later on, Halder even acknowledged that it would be fruitless to kill Hitler of the consequences it would bring Germany overall. Even though Halder admitted that he sometimes felt like shooting Hitler personally, he still kept up to his position. It wasn't until Case Blue that Halder was convinced that Hitler was toxic to the war effort and von Brauchitsch was discredited by then. The only real possibility I see of a early coup is if Hitler does not postpone Case Yellow because of rain and has German troops carry it in November. And if Germany botches it up, then a coup would be meaningful to launch.

(On a sidenote, please check on your spelling)

Fine then I'll scrap it, I did try....

 

[ArtisticCritic]

Fine then I'll scrap it, I did try....

It's alright. You did a damn good effort, though. I encourage you to seek more opportunities in writing timelines. You seem to hold a lot of potential. And I will support it.

 

[Gudestein]

Yeah, I don't really see a coup being possible by Germany's invasion of Poland. OTL, von Brauchitsch and Halder were not too opposed to the initial invasion of Poland. Later on, Halder even acknowledged that it would be fruitless to kill Hitler of the consequences it would bring Germany overall. Even though Halder admitted that he sometimes felt like shooting Hitler personally, he still kept up to his position. It wasn't until Case Blue that Halder was convinced that Hitler was toxic to the war effort and von Brauchitsch was discredited by then. The only real possibility I see of a early coup is if Hitler does not postpone Case Yellow because of rain and has German troops carry it in November. And if Germany botches it up, then a coup would be meaningful to launch.

(On a sidenote, please check on your spelling. I know you have Asberger's and so do I. So I feel for you.)

Fine then I'll scrap it, I did try....

It's alright. You did a damn good effort, though. I encourage you to seek more opportunities in writing timelines. You seem to hold a lot of potential. And I will support it.

What???? The coup in 1938 has been done countless times, whereas this a highly original proposition.

Basically, it comes Down to believing in the guarantee for Poland or not. The generals did find the strategic situation hopeless if Britain-France declared war).
The Generals wanted the polish corridor, but they did not want war with Britain and France. Halder's excuse seems like a later rationalization.
The arguments stand as from 1938, Hitlers is bringing them towards the brink of war they think they will lose. The generals only need to stand together and say,"we wont get away with it a second time".
It is less obvious than in 1938, sure, but go with it. Its not impossible, and thats your pod.
Go and check out the fabled Ango-American Nazi War. The POD is that Hitler just stays out of africa, brings Winter gear because the full army needed to be prepared for occupation and beats the soviets. And then it becomes a VERY good TL.
You start with an event that didn't happen OTL, for a reason as ArtisticCritic points out, but it could have, and you can move from there.
To support it, maybe you should take us inside the head of one or two of the conspirators and explain how their rationale is. But please go ahead.

I should say, you will in all likelihood receive much fiercer criticism, so stand tall and don't be discouraged.

 

[Hunter W.]

What???? The coup in 1938 has been done countless times, whereas this a highly original proposition.

Basically, it comes Down to believing in the guarantee for Poland or not. The generals did find the strategic situation hopeless if Britain-France declared war).
The Generals wanted the polish corridor, but they did not want war with Britain and France. Halder's excuse seems like a later rationalization.
The arguments stand as from 1938, Hitlers is bringing them towards the brink of war they think they will lose. The generals only need to stand together and say,"we wont get away with it a second time".
It is less obvious than in 1938, sure, but go with it. Its not impossible, and thats your pod.
Go and check out the fabled Ango-American Nazi War. The POD is that Hitler just stays out of africa, brings Winter gear because the full army needed to be prepared for occupation and beats the soviets. And then it becomes a VERY good TL.
You start with an event that didn't happen OTL, for a reason as ArtisticCritic points out, but it could have, and you can move from there.
To support it, maybe you should take us inside the head of one or two of the conspirators and explain how their rationale is. But please go ahead.

I should say, you will in all likelihood receive much fiercer criticism, so stand tall and don't be discouraged.

Very kind of you, I will continue this if people would like

 

[stubear1012]

I would like to see how this develops. Basically Germany has expanded their territory and gained the Czech gold and industry. Poland has claimed part of Czechoslovakia which shows a willingness to work with the German's when it is in Poland interest. This time line would be very interesting to read.

Regards

Stubear1012

 

[dehantp]

Minor typos:

"Joachim Von Ribbentrop" should be: Joachim von Ribbentrop.
"Reichkanzlie" should be: Reichskanzlei

 

[ArtisticCritic]

Very kind of you, I will continue this if people would like

Yes, you can still achieve much with this thread. Do what you believe in and it will turn out best for you.

 

[ObssesedNuker]

brings Winter gear because the full army needed to be prepared for occupation

Calbear does admit that this is all a handwave, though. Adding an entire Army Group wouldn't have brought German in Barbarossa, much less just the forces sent to Afrika for logistical reasons. Similarly, the rail space for the massive quantities of winter gear to outfit even a single corps, much less the entire Ostheer, simply did not exist unless the Germans so badly compromise in another, even more vital area (like ammunition) that the Soviets fight the invasion to a halt much further west, around Smolensk, failing to do even the OTL levels of damage to the Red Army and industry... much less achieve victory.

Nonetheless, I don't fault Calbear for it. I don't mind a blatantly handwaved PoD so long as the OP admits it is a handwave.

With that said, a coup (succeed or fail) in mid-1939 is liable to derail things so badly that either WW2 never happens or it happens later and Germany misses it's window and gets crushed much faster because of it.

 

[Gudestein]

Calbear does admit that this is all a handwave, though. Adding an entire Army Group wouldn't have brought German in Barbarossa, much less just the forces sent to Afrika for logistical reasons. Similarly, the rail space for the massive quantities of winter gear to outfit even a single corps, much less the entire Ostheer, simply did not exist unless the Germans so badly compromise in another, even more vital area (like ammunition) that the Soviets fight the invasion to a halt much further west, around Smolensk, failing to do even the OTL levels of damage to the Red Army and industry... much less achieve victory.

Nonetheless, I don't fault Calbear for it. I don't mind a blatantly handwaved PoD so long as the OP admits it is a handwave.

With that said, a coup (succeed or fail) in mid-1939 is liable to derail things so badly that either WW2 never happens or it happens later and Germany misses it's window and gets crushed much faster because of it.

I think we are in agreement here. It was a massive handwave and it is OK to get to a certain point. I am just a Little after Calbear here for consistency, but that is a personal thing and does not need to take up Space in this TL.

Very kind of you, I will continue this if people would like

Go for it!. There is no guarantee it wont get murdered later, but were are not even close yet.