A US Invasion Normandy/Gallipoli style landing

Before some people cry ASB about a succesful invasion of the United States from across either the Pacific or Atlantic, never mind the US navy:rolleyes: - this is just a hypothetical scenario.

Where exactly would be the best place to land if you were going to invade the United States. Which beaches would be ideal not only for landing in a Normandy/Gallipoli (or any other seabourne approach) invasion for both attack and defense?
 
Before some people cry ASB about a succesful invasion of the United States from across either the Pacific or Atlantic, never mind the US navy:rolleyes: - this is just a hypothetical scenario.

Where exactly would be the best place to land if you were going to invade the United States. Which beaches would be ideal not only for landing in a Normandy/Gallipoli (or any other seabourne approach) invasion for both attack and defense?


Er, just a point but your examples are on success and one failure so which are you suggesting as a scenario? :)

For information I'd suggest looking at some of the Aggressor Forces exercises of the 50s and 60s by the US Army. (http://www.alternatewars.com/WW3/Trigons/Trigons.htm)

They 'successful' invaded the US during the exercises.

Randy
 

TFSmith121

Banned
Kind of depends on where the invasion force is being

Before some people cry ASB about a succesful invasion of the United States from across either the Pacific or Atlantic, never mind the US navy:rolleyes: - this is just a hypothetical scenario.

Where exactly would be the best place to land if you were going to invade the United States. Which beaches would be ideal not only for landing in a Normandy/Gallipoli (or any other seabourne approach) invasion for both attack and defense?

Kind of depends on where the invasion force is being mounted from, right?

Invading North America from across the North Atlantic, North Pacific, or the Arctic, if one really wants to go ASB, is roughly equivalent to invading Eurasia from the Americas...

There's a reason no one ever tried it.

Best,
 
If we are talking pre 1940's then it becomes a possibility as several powers have possessions relative close to the US. Thinking islands/bases in the Caribbean to stage out of. Also pre 1940 the US Navy and Army are relatively comparable/small to the other great powers of the time. This combines with very long coast lines making as invasion difficult to defend against. However keeping a landed force ashore is somewhere between very difficult to impossible (short of an unlikely complete US collapse) mostly due to the same reasons that the sea-mammal would have failed in 1940 (please don't start discussing it again here!). Of course it would require a rapid deterioration in relations or massive internal disruption as a protracted crises would allow the US to flex its industrial and manpower muscles. As once the US gets going it becomes ASB.
 
I'm going to say that a Russo-Japanese attack into Alaska is probably more viable from the aspect of they can build sufficient support infrastructure to match what the Americans can put up. Of course, actually getting those two into a position that they'd cooperate would be on the borderline of ASB.
 
To do this, you need near-ish bases. Canada is indefensible and the West Coast puts you on the wrong side of the Rockies, so that means the Caribbean. Florida is poor invading country, like most of the coast from the Virginia Capes around to the Mississippi Delta, so I'm looking to Texas.

In turn, that means air bases in Mexico or the Yucatan. It's unlikely the Mexicans will let us in peacefully, so we need to seize the bases. In fact, we need to fight our way past Cuba to get there. We probably need to invade Cuba and maybe southern Florida to do this, and credibly threaten the north-east to avoid a concentration of forces. At some point, this involves crossing the Atlantic, then defeating the US Atlantic Fleet.

Assuming we pull this off, first objective ashore is Houston. This will be our logistic hub. Then we're aiming to advance up a Dallas-Oklahoma City-St Louis-Chicago axis, cutting the US in two, before wheeling right up the Ohio valley. This is a scheme on a par with Barbarossa, with lines of supply almost on a par with the Pacific. Several of the shaping operations would rank as the greatest military operation of all time. Opportunities for catastrophic failure are numerous.

The alternative is to push down from Alaska, but that's a lot of miles of absolutely nothing that you have to fight through before capturing anything of value.
 
The Caribbean is further weakened as a jump-off point that a large force would need constant resupplying, as the relatively small islands wouldn't be able to support large additional populations. About the only way I could see it really happening is if the main force is built up in northern South America while the Carribean island function more-or-less as airfields and ports.
 

Saphroneth

Banned
Okay, let's see...

Coastal defences are a no-no, but I don't think the US actually has them any more from lack of need. We can assume there'd be some set up if the US lost naval supremacy...


...purely for the sake of argument, I'm imagining some world where things went tits-up post-WW1 and Eurasia is all Hard Commie, while the US has suffered from Capitalist Crashes and is pretty financially crippled... and now is the time to strike.
The fleets of the Red Banner are capable of winning naval superiority from the evil Capitalist Americans, by employing brave Red Pilots operating from many Aircraft Carriers.
A fleet consisting of hundreds upon hundreds of LST-type ships is setting off from Eurasia, and they can fall anywhere along the Eastern Seaboard.


The mobilized US army has 100 coastal defence divisions on the east coast, each responsible for 20 miles of the seaboard. That's denser than at Normandy, which isn't a good sign for the invasion.

So.
Point one - the invaders need a port.
Point two - they need space which is relatively amenable to landing over the beaches.
 
In the 1890s A Imperial German General Staff officer was directed to study the problem and write a brief outline plan. He came up with sending a corps directly from Germany, landing near NY, Long Island IRCC, and seizing NY city. The stratigic objective was to hold this major economic hub as a bargaing chip. The longer armistice & peace negotiations dragged out the worse for the US economy.

This plan was made when the US naval modernization was still underway & the USN seen as undertrained and its ships unproven. The US Army could not even field a brigade of regulars near NY city & the state militias in the NE US mostly a social club, barely able to deal with small urban riots.

In retrospect the plan was over dependant on US weakness, ignorant of long distance logistics, ignorant of amphibious & littoral operations, and ignored international politics - that is the problem of British or French intervention against Germany. Given the attitude of France towards Germany in the 1890s French alignment with the US would have been inevitable.

However writng this plan did fill the requirements handed to this GS officer, allowing him to move on to something more useful.
 
Er, just a point but your examples are on success and one failure so which are you suggesting as a scenario? :)

For information I'd suggest looking at some of the Aggressor Forces exercises of the 50s and 60s by the US Army. (http://www.alternatewars.com/WW3/Trigons/Trigons.htm)

They 'successful' invaded the US during the exercises.

Randy

I must admit that was pretty cool.

"Equipment is nearly identical to ours". I wonder why that could be? :p
 
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Er, just a point but your examples are on success and one failure so which are you suggesting as a scenario? :)

For information I'd suggest looking at some of the Aggressor Forces exercises of the 50s and 60s by the US Army. (http://www.alternatewars.com/WW3/Trigons/Trigons.htm)

They 'successful' invaded the US during the exercises.

Randy

Its a fun read, although with several obvious prejudices.

Are there any after action reports and exercise assessments available?

It would be nice to know the theoretical how, what and when.
 

James G

Gone Fishin'
Normandy-style landings

I've thought about this before and also read Eric L. Harry's Invasion in which a Chinese Army tens of millions strong, backed up by a navy with dozens of supercarriers, makes the attempt to take the US mainland. That scenario is the best one.
Humour me a minute...
The Caribbean is the key. Seize the many small island nations which can't defend themselves for their ports and airports. Depending on the geo-politics there are British-French-Dutch possessions too there.
Go for the US Virgin Islands and Puerto Rico first with Cuba as your main goal.
Expect the Americans to be fighting the moment the first attacks begin into Barbados and islands like that. Air and naval warfare across the Caribbean with light troops / marines fighting for islands.
Once the battle for Cuba begins the attackers should take the Bahamas too. American attention is on Florida now as Cuba is won.
Peninsula Florida is a no go due to its geography especially internally but the Florida Keys could be taken.
Then the Normandy-style invasion goes into...
...western Florida, coastal Alabama and coastal Mississippi - everywhere between Tyndall AFB and New Orleans. Expect the many ports with the bigger Mobile down to Gulfport, Pascagoula and Biloxi to all be demolished but the OP did say Normandy-style. So across the beaches.
Then it is inland into the heart of the American South with climatic battles throughout this region. Further war aims would be to the north and east through Mississippi and Alabama into Georgia and try to pocket US forces inside Peninsula Florida if possible. Then it is eastern Tennessee and the Carolina's. The Appalachian Mountains guard your flanks and the political targets up the Eastern Seaboard from Atlanta to Washington are up ahead. Head northeast into Virginia with D.C. as your goal and if necessary keep going to Philadelphia, New York and Boston too.
There would have to be a huge attacking army with immense supply stocks as landing those and then moving them without a major intact port would be troublesome to say the least.
Oh and there would be a... 100% chance that the US resorts to nukes probably even before the landing forces arrive on the Gulf Coast beaches.
 
Kind of depends on where the invasion force is being mounted from, right?

Invading North America from across the North Atlantic, North Pacific, or the Arctic, if one really wants to go ASB, is roughly equivalent to invading Eurasia from the Americas...

There's a reason no one ever tried it.

Best,

Well to be fair the US of the era could honestly have tried it and most likely succeeded with it. Also Patton did that with Africa and it's not the much farther to get to Portugal from where he landed IIRC.
 
I've thought about this before and also read Eric L. Harry's Invasion in which a Chinese Army tens of millions strong, backed up by a navy with dozens of supercarriers, makes the attempt to take the US mainland. That scenario is the best one.
Humour me a minute...
The Caribbean is the key. Seize the many small island nations which can't defend themselves for their ports and airports. Depending on the geo-politics there are British-French-Dutch possessions too there.
Go for the US Virgin Islands and Puerto Rico first with Cuba as your main goal.
Expect the Americans to be fighting the moment the first attacks begin into Barbados and islands like that. Air and naval warfare across the Caribbean with light troops / marines fighting for islands.
Once the battle for Cuba begins the attackers should take the Bahamas too. American attention is on Florida now as Cuba is won.
Peninsula Florida is a no go due to its geography especially internally but the Florida Keys could be taken.
Then the Normandy-style invasion goes into...
...western Florida, coastal Alabama and coastal Mississippi - everywhere between Tyndall AFB and New Orleans. Expect the many ports with the bigger Mobile down to Gulfport, Pascagoula and Biloxi to all be demolished but the OP did say Normandy-style. So across the beaches.
Then it is inland into the heart of the American South with climatic battles throughout this region. Further war aims would be to the north and east through Mississippi and Alabama into Georgia and try to pocket US forces inside Peninsula Florida if possible. Then it is eastern Tennessee and the Carolina's. The Appalachian Mountains guard your flanks and the political targets up the Eastern Seaboard from Atlanta to Washington are up ahead. Head northeast into Virginia with D.C. as your goal and if necessary keep going to Philadelphia, New York and Boston too.
There would have to be a huge attacking army with immense supply stocks as landing those and then moving them without a major intact port would be troublesome to say the least.
Oh and there would be a... 100% chance that the US resorts to nukes probably even before the landing forces arrive on the Gulf Coast beaches.

I have also read that book and was amused that the Chinese advanced up the east coast and not in the middle of the country with room for manouver.
 
The Aggressor stuff is fascinating. Although I was aware of the war games, I never realized that much background went into imagining who, what, why, and how the Aggressor enemy came to be. It would provide war games with a degree of veracity for the participants. It's especially interesting that the enemy was NOT a pretend USSR.

My own thinking is that a direct assault on the continental US from Europe or Asia would be impracticable bordering on impossible (just as a direct US assault on Europe without basis in Britain or Africa would be), and its interesting that Aggressor also obtained advanced bases in the western hemisphere first. That means that the airborne and marine invasions would not require direct trans-atlantic crossings
 
I must admit that was pretty cool.

"Equipment is nearly identical to ours". I wonder why that could be? :p

Cheap enemy of course they bought all out "used" stuff :)

Its a fun read, although with several obvious prejudices.

Are there any after action reports and exercise assessments available?

It would be nice to know the theoretical how, what and when.

Not that I've found as the listed site seems to have the most information.

The Aggressor stuff is fascinating. Although I was aware of the war games, I never realized that much background went into imagining who, what, why, and how the Aggressor enemy came to be. It would provide war games with a degree of veracity for the participants. It's especially interesting that the enemy was NOT a pretend USSR.

At the time the idea was the only war we'd get into with the USSR was a nuclear one so no point in "practicing" that. And after WWII there was seen a need for a comprehensive and "credible" enemy OpFor to train against. Plus it gave the "Aggressors" a credible and obvious "difference" which went a long way (and cheaply) towards providing better training. Once we acknowledged we could actually get into it "conventionally" with the Soviets the main impetus of the training went away :(

Of course can you imagine the "effects" if we went back to it now-a-days? If you thought the "JadeHelm" stuff was ABSC can you imagine how modern day "Aggressors" would be greeted? :)

My own thinking is that a direct assault on the continental US from Europe or Asia would be impracticable bordering on impossible (just as a direct US assault on Europe without basis in Britain or Africa would be), and its interesting that Aggressor also obtained advanced bases in the western hemisphere first. That means that the airborne and marine invasions would not require direct trans-atlantic crossings

The 50s Navy and Army were both "weakened" by the New Look policy and the Aggressor training took that into account. The only one that didn't have an advanced base that I recall was the California exercise which "assumed" some off-shore support.

For the OP the main issue is what has to have happened to the US military, why and when would the scenario take place. Any modern (or post-Modern) scenario has to have a lot of factors line up OR have Mexico and Canada as bases of operation AND a weak US military to have a chance.

Note the suggested book has China having a military advantage out of proportion to what it could logically field "Tens of Millions Strong Army" and "Dozens of Super Carriers" (and assumed the logistical hulls to CARRY and SUPPLY said Army) as a basis and still has to rely on taking close territory to allow it to happen. Not sure 'invasion' is possible after WWI and without the US being a total wreck to have any chance...

Randy
 
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