A United Baltic
Anybody know the degree of mutual intelligibility between Lithuanian and Latvian, or when the two languages diverged?
i think it is when the converted to Christianity and the Lithuanians didn't and then the northern crusades against the Lithuanians that what i think separated them https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latvian_language#History there also a link with more
Last edited:
No Baltic Crusades. Lithuania was already in the process of uniting the northern and northeastern Baltic tribes like Latgalians, Selians and Semigallians under their wing when the Brothers of the Sword showed up and delayed the Lithuanian unification process by three decades by killing off their whole leadership.
When I read Latvian texts, I can make out some of the words and I could probably understand the meaning of the most absolute basic sentence, like "I am [name] from Lithuania" or something, but false friends would make understanding anything beyond that a challenge.
It's anecdotical, but it should give you the gist of our linguistic proximity. Latgalians and Lithuanians separated from the East Baltic branch somewhere around 5th century AD.
When I hear a Latvian speaking, I can't understand a bit. I would be able to tell that the person speaking is Latvian and that their language slightly resembles mine, but I wouldn't be able to understand a single word.
When I read Latvian texts, I can make out some of the words and I could probably understand the meaning of the most absolute basic sentence, like "I am [name] from Lithuania" or something, but false friends would make understanding anything beyond that a challenge.
It's anecdotical, but it should give you the gist of our linguistic proximity. Latgalians and Lithuanians separated from the East Baltic branch somewhere around 5th century AD.
Maybe they were closer together in the past and more like Portuguese and Spanish?
We have no clue, because the first written examples of Lithuanian and Latvian come from the 16th century.
The easiest solution seems to be uniting the various Vasa branches under one crown since they already controlled Sweden, Poland, and Lithuania. You'd probably need Sweden to stay Catholic though.
Keeping Sweden Catholic require reverse of OTL situation (Vasas taking PLC)-Jagiellons should get Sweden. IOTL Sigismund the Old was offered Swedish throne by Swedish rebels around 1506. In situation, where older brothers of Sigismund live longer, keeping him "jobless", then Poland may treat that offer more serioisly. Sigismund the Old as King of Sweden would not introduce Protestantism, so once Polish-Lithuanian Jagiellon branch would die out, he or his descendents could inherit Polish and Lithuanian thrones without problems.
What if they danish were able to take over the entire area of Baltic’s and then in a mass revolt they revolt under the banner of one group or multiple leading to a successful revolt but due to the enemy around them they form a distant i union or alliance that leads to a united country
Last edited:
Yes, if all the Baltic tribes fell under one nation, they would have all swiftly assimilated into one language, much like how Samogitians and Yatvingians became part of the Lithuanian ethnos in OTL.
It's not unique for Eastern Europe. Belarusian, Romanian, Ukrainian, Finnish and Albanian only became written languages at this period as well.
Generally it's because written national languages in Europe followed either Christianization (religious translations) or high state organization (written laws, documents, etc.), and Baltics were laggards in both.
I would have imagined that they would have appeared as early as the 14th century then.
Lithuania only became Catholic in 1387.
Latvia was baptized earlier, but the Latgalians and other Balts were solely commoners and peasants, and nobody cares about translating or writing books for commoners at that time.
Lithuanian elites used Chancery Slavonic for official documents. Livonia was ruled by Germans.
In Latvia post-conquest by Crusaders? German, like in Prussia.
Although there was no literature in Baltic languages before 16th century, short text and single sentences written by other people (mostly by Germans in Prussia) from 13-14th century survived.
OTL Teutonic Order States in Prussia and Livonia looked like this. Over time Baltic Prussians became more loyal citizens of TO state than German urban population of large towns, like Danzig or Thorn, who were more and more unhappy about rising taxes and finally rebelled against TO in 1454. Baltic Prussians were even allowed to keep their religion even as late as during 1520s (at the time of the lasts wars between Poland and Teutonic Order, in 1520 Prussian Pagan priest Waltin Supplit asked Grand Master for permission for performance of pagan rituals in Sambia, Grand Master agreed. Thousands of Prussians gathered on the Baltic coast and begged their gods to save Prussia from invasion of Danzig fleet, allied with Poland. They sacrificed black bull to the gods, and seemingly that worked, because Danzig fleet retreated. That is how Teutonic Crusader States fullfilled their mission
