A Truly Phyrric Victory: WI Pyrrhus backed down?

Zioneer

Banned
As the title says, what if, after the Battle of Asculum, King Pyrrhus of Epirus recognized that another "Phyrric" victory would doom his ambitions in Italy, and he asked for a moderate merciful peacefire with the Romans?

Could he come back to Italy later, carving a truly Phyrric "Empire" out of the Roman Republic?

And could he and his descendants keep together the Epirot Kingdom/Empire he would naturally establish as a result of carving out a part of Italy?

What would be the short term (a generation, or two, or even three) effects of this?
 

Typo

Banned
Phyrrus never seriously threatened Romans with complete defeat, not to the Hannibal level

Phyrrus was still fundamentally drawing power from Epirus, which is rather poor in population, his best bet was to intervene in the affairs of Macedon and Greece, rather than confront Rome, which was further away from his base of operations and far more stable.
 
The Roman philosophy of war didn't allow for merciful, moderate ceasefires - either the republic was completely defeated, or their foe was made into a subserviant ally to Rome. This is the reason for Hannibals later problems, as he would expect Rome to treat for peace after Transimere and Cannae, but Rome didn't play by the same rules as the rest of the Mediterranean world.
 
It largely wasn't in Pyrrhus's nature to back down. Plutarch says that he had ambitions as far-flung as conquering Carthage and saw subjugating Rome as the springboard for that enterprise. Pyrrhus could have withdrawn to the safety of Tarentine lands and waited for the Romans to muster up another army for him to defeat, but it was not in his nature to ask for a ceasefire with anyone, let alone Rome, whom the Hellenistic Kingdoms still considered an inferior "barbarian" state. After Asculum, Pyrrhus receives two offers simultaneously from different parties. He is offered the job of defending Syracuse and conquering the Carthaginian lands in Sicily as well as the position of King of Macedon, after the previous king had been killed in a battle with Gauls. In OTL, Pyrrhus chose to ravage Sicily for two years, which further drained his already limited resources and alienated his allies on the western side of the Adriatic. If Pyrrhus had taken up the crown of Macedon, however, you could instantly see Pyrrhus's logistical problems allayed, and Rome's integrity becomes jeopardized. Pyrrhus, with just his Epirote phalangites and meager allies from Magna Graecia, had advanced all the way past Neaopolis before they turned back--with the whole of Macedon supporting them, Rome seriously runs the risk of being captured.
 
Last edited:

Zioneer

Banned
Alright then, say Pyrrhus takes the crown of Macedon, and THEN carves an empire out of parts of Italy.

Could he do it? And would he then abandon Macedon to a relative or friend, to instead take greater control of his Italian holdings?

And what would happen to the politics of the region if he did? What would happen if he simply gained control of most of the Roman Republic AND Macedon. Could he create a lasting empire, as long as he let himself wage war every so often?
 
I think he was certainly capable of doing it, but I don't know if he could have held it. One wild card to consider is Carthage (who allied with Rome in the Pyrrhic War). It's a toss-up whether they would want to sheath their swords or keep fighting to protect their holdings in Sicily.
 
Last edited:
I made a TL on this. In my opinion, Rome could have backed down. Rome isn't made up of idiots, and while all or nothing is good when you have a chance for that "all", it's not great when it's either some or nothing. Carthage wasn't destroyed after the first punic war.
That being said, if Pyrrhus defeats Rome, it will still consider itself weak [the victory over Pyrrhus, then-rising star of the Greek World, really gave Rome confidence]. An alliance with Carthage will definetly be made - Carthage and Rome were friendly when there were Greeks in between them, and when Rome thought itself as a small power needing assistance.
Once Pyrrhus has successfully protected Greeks in Italy he will be regarded much more highly, and we have a Pyrrhic Greece in the cards (he would take Macedon as well).
There would thus be a four way between Epirus, Rome, Carthage, and the other post-Alexandrian states in the Mediterranean.
 
And could he and his descendants keep together the Epirot Kingdom/Empire he would naturally establish as a result of carving out a part of Italy?

What would be the short term (a generation, or two, or even three) effects of this?

They would build vast wooden spheres, where children would be carried around in ox-carts and shown ads for ancient telecommunications corporations. Outside, exotic easterners would shoot magical flames at condemned men forced to dress like mice.
 
They would build vast wooden spheres, where children would be carried around in ox-carts and shown ads for ancient telecommunications corporations. Outside, exotic easterners would shoot magical flames at condemned men forced to dress like mice.
???? I don't understand???:confused:
 
Top