A Trebizondian-Georgian Empire

Hello all, I was wondering if anyone with more knowledge than myself on the topics of the Empire of Trebizond and the Kingdom of Georgia could shed some light on the likelihood of a united Empire of Trebizond-Georgia. I had three questions, if anyone wants to take a crack at it.

1) Is such a union even possible?

So, would such a state come into existence at all? On the one hand, they're both Orthodox nations surrounded by hostile Islamic powers. While it is true that there is a cultural divide between Georgians and Greeks, it isn't like that's caused undue distrust between the groups (an admittedly outdated example is the Armenian Zeno becoming Emperor). However, they are both at risk of invasion, and their survival can be threatened.

2) What would this nation look like, if it did come into being?

Would Greeks or Georgians be the dominant culture? Would Trebizond, Tblisi, or some other city be the capital? Would it be able to sustain trans-Caspian trade from the Silk Road as an alternative to Cape routes as the Age of Exploration began? Would it be seen as a European or Asian nation? Would it be influential in international politics? What territory would it control?

3) Could such a state survive?

Could a union of Trebizond and Georgia survive, and for how long? Assuming no other major butterflies, it would be stuck between the Ottomans, Russians, and Safavids as time went on, which could be both a threat - it is surrounded by larger powers - and security, as it would be a fairly neutral (at least to the Ottomans and Safavids) buffer state. The mountains of Georgia are defensibe, but this isn't enough to sustain a weak state. And would it fall under the influence of a Great Power later on in time?
 
1. As personal union (and later real one)- sure. As far as I remember Georgian nobility intermarried with Trebizondian- rulers too. Although such state would almost certainly try to claim "Roman Empire" title.

2. Depends on how PU would be formed. Both ways it seems possible.

3. Without major butterflies- I doubt. Although it depends on when such union would be formed. Georgia was fairly strong state at some points of time (surely it could aspire to being empire- although rather small one), at one point both Trebizond and Georgia were both strong- if (somehow) they would unite then, I guess they could be major force in Asia Minor- with quite big luck I can see them conquering big part of Anatolia... Although it's pure speculation now.
 

katchen

Banned
The biggest challenge to such an Empire is both ethnic and psychological. On paper such an Empire looks good. Build fleets of naval galleys for the Black Sea and after conquering to the Caspian, the Caspian Sea. Even arm them with the new rudimentary war cannons that the Mongols taught everyone about. Establish colonies on the Danube Delta using the knowledge of how Venice protects itself with marshes effectively. Capture the Crimea and then Circassia. Settle refugee Greeks from the Ottoman capture of Thrace in and around these areas. Russian cossacks emigrating in will assimilate. Eventually, this Empire can extend it's power up the Danube at least to the Iron Gate, the Dneiper to the Dneperppterovsk Rapids, the Don to it's head of navigation, the Volga to perhaps Kazan, perhaps even Nizhny Novgorod and the Ural to it's head of navigation and then over the Ural portage to the Tobol.
On paper it looks good.
The basic problem is twofold. Mountains create "cantons" and Switzerland is the arch example. Switzerland as it developed, developed democratically around autonomous valley cantons first in the Alps and then in the Plateau between the Alps and the Jura Mountains. Because Switzerland was democratic--and had the fortune to come into being at a time when Europe was establishing a continental order based on nation states--Switzerland was able to establish--and keep --it's independence despite speaking three different languages.
The Caucasus, even Georgia itself, is Switzerland to the fourth or more power with over a dozen different languages. Even Georgia itself has several different languages like Mingerelian to say nothing of Ossetian. The various peoples of the Caucasus can be conquered for a short while, but because of the terrain and the lack of a population base in either Georgia or Greek Trebizond, cannot be subjugated for very long. We need only look at the problems the greatly more numerous Russians have had holding onto the Chechens, the Dagestanis, the Kabardins, Balkars and Cherkessians. All of these peoples must be ACCOMMODATED somehow, not conquered.
And once accommodated, there is the natural tendency of mountain nations from Switzerland to Tibet to "porcupine", to protect themselves behind their mountain fastness for as long as they can, rather than expand outward into the plains. Only severe ecological crises such as a Little Ice Age causing widespread famine in high mountains can counteract this tendency. Georgia-Trebizond will be no exception, unfortunately.:(
 
Top