A Trastamara Austria-Burgundy?

[Gonzaga]

Inspired by a quote of Susano in this thread, about the possibility of Philip the Handsome dieing childless: https://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=101935&highlight=philip

Well, there's his sister, Margaret of Austria, but IOTL she had no children. Interestingly enough according to Wiki she did get pregnant by John Prince of Asturias. If that child (stillborn IOTL) has survived, while Philip has no sons, we could see Austria-Burgundy and Spain united - under Trastamara!

IOTL John of Asturias' child with Margaret was a stillborn girl. WI the child had been a boy and survived, while Philip the Handsome and Joana had remained childless? We would have Burgundy under the House of Trastamara, but would Austria be included in this Spanish Empire? And who would be elected as Emperor when Maximilian dies?

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Inspired by a quote of Susano in this thread, about the possibility of Philip the Handsome dieing childless: https://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=101935&highlight=philip



IOTL John of Asturias' child with Margaret was a stillborn girl. WI the child had been a boy and survived, while Philip the Handsome and Joana had remained childless? We would have Burgundy under the House of Trastamara, but would Austria be included in this Spanish Empire? And who would be elected as Emperor when Maximilian dies?

Well her's would be the most direct female line but there are likely to be competing lines from Bavaria, Saxony and Baden. John or his heir could still be made HRE though with the Spanish financing behind them, Even if they were to compromise with Bavaria, the next best line through Kunigunde, as Burgundy is still part of the HRE.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Prince Juan always interested me.. from what i read, he was a combination of his parents best attributes.... he was also very energetic so he could be the earlier Charles V only problem is would he be a capable enough general to hold this Empire together?

 

[Gonzaga]

Prince Juan always interested me.. from what i read, he was a combination of his parents best attributes.... he was also very energetic so he could be the earlier Charles V only problem is would he be a capable enough general to hold this Empire together?

Well, I doubt the Electors would choose a non-German as the next HRE. I think he would get Burgundy and probably Austria too (could Bavaria try to seize it?). However, the position of Emperor would go to someone else.
So, we would have ITTL France still surrounded by Spain-Burgundy, but John's son (or even John, if we keep him healthy) wouldn't be the Emperor. How much would it affect the results of the Franco-Spanish conflicts? If the Duke of Bavaria becomes Emperor and he has ambitions over Austria, could we see an French-Bavarian alliance against the Trastamara?

 

[CaptainAmerica]

well i think that Juan has a chance to get elected HRE.. it all depends on were the money is at.. after all Francis, King of France almost got elected HRE over Charles V and he was German in a sense

 

[Susano]

Well, I doubt the Electors would choose a non-German as the next HRE. I think he would get Burgundy and probably Austria too (could Bavaria try to seize it?). However, the position of Emperor would go to someone else.
So, we would have ITTL France still surrounded by Spain-Burgundy, but John's son (or even John, if we keep him healthy) wouldn't be the Emperor. How much would it affect the results of the Franco-Spanish conflicts? If the Duke of Bavaria becomes Emperor and he has ambitions over Austria, could we see an French-Bavarian alliance against the Trastamara?

Well Philips line was the only Habsburg line at the moment. With him Habsburg would di eout, if he has no sons. Hence wenter the hazardous terrain of female succession. Rules were never as clear there, but generally the principle of "proximity of blood" counted, so purely legally, Margret of Austria and her son would be the heir over any Bavarian relatives. Of course, this might not deter Bavaria from trying its luck anyways.

As for Emperorship, well, the Electors accepted charles V., didnt they? He was as much a foreigner as Johns and Margerets son would be... however, hed be Trastamare, not Habsburg, so the electors wouldnt automatcially vot efor him, so to say. Francis I. of France might make it this time, as Ive said in the other thread... (now of course, hes a complete foreigner). Elsewise, Wettin, Wittelsbach-Bavaria, Wittelsbach-Palatinate, one of the Welf lines, Cleves... I dunno, if there a really open election, the possibilities are endless...

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Well, I doubt the Electors would choose a non-German as the next HRE. I think he would get Burgundy and probably Austria too (could Bavaria try to seize it?). However, the position of Emperor would go to someone else.
So, we would have ITTL France still surrounded by Spain-Burgundy, but John's son (or even John, if we keep him healthy) wouldn't be the Emperor. How much would it affect the results of the Franco-Spanish conflicts? If the Duke of Bavaria becomes Emperor and he has ambitions over Austria, could we see an French-Bavarian alliance against the Trastamara?

This is what I was referring to with the competing female lines. Look how long it took Charles to get acceptance for his pragmatic sanction, which is what we are essentially talking here. We all know what happened when Maria Theresa tried to retain the entire Hapsburg inheritance.

So odds are someone will try their luck. Spain would be John's direct inheritance. Burgundy is not directly part of Maximilian's hereditary lands as they descend from his wife Mary so they could devolve to Margaret and her heirs, but the French may have something to say about that as they did with the initial inheritance of the Duchy of Burgundy so that would likely keep the Trastamara busy in itself. So if their smart then they let the Wittelsbach of Bavaria get the bulk of Maximilian's hereditary lands and support each others claim. The Wettins and Baden might get some minor possessions simply to contain any of the ambitions that the French might entertain on the borders of the HRE.

The Wittelsbach probably have a good chance at obtaining the Emporer's seat., but that election when Maximilian dies would be open for the taking by the one with the deepest pockets or who can grant the best favours.

This will really mess up things in East central Europe. Though I suppose the Wittelsbach could pursue a course similiar to that of the Habsburgs where Bohemia and Hungary are concerned.