You should've given Goldwater a go against Kennedy, that would've been very cool to see.
A Time For Greatness: The Alternate Presidency of John F. Kennedy and beyond
- Thread starter PickledFish
- Start date
I actually have two versions of this timeline in my notes - version a) where Kennedy runs for re-election against Goldwater, and version b) where Kennedy runs for re-election against Rockefeller.
That's not to say that Rockefeller is a sure thing - far from it. He's still not popular with many conservatives and the divorce hangs over his head.
You probably know that Goldwater and JFK were close friends, notwithstanding their diametric political opposition, and at one point at least semi-seriously discussed barnstorming the country together in 1964, holding debates on the spot wherever they went. Kennedy once famously inscribed a photograph of himself that Goldwater (a highly skilled lensman) had taken, "To my friend Barry Goldwater, whom I urge to follow the career for which he has shown so much talent...photography."
SOAWWIISoldier
Monthly Donor
Now that's a POD for you. Goldwater as Whitehouse photographer instead of President.
Oh hey, I just remembered something that I don't think has been covered yet. In 1963-64 there was a major epidemic of rubella (then popularly called "German measles") in the U.S.. One of the side effects is that when a pregnant woman comes down with rubella, her baby has a high likelihood of being hearing-impaired from birth. That's why there is a large population of people in their late 50's today who are hearing-impaired in varying degrees of severity...including yours truly; I was born in early March of 1964.
So, does the rubella epidemic occur ITTL?
So, does the rubella epidemic occur ITTL?
Two major points....
One, Rockefeller was never on the path to winning the Republican nomination. Goldwaterites had essentially overrun the Caucuses that year that nominated the overwhelming majority of the delegates to the Republican Convention, and carrying California is not going to change any of their minds in terms of who they are supporting. Even among favorite sons, there was serious dissension against Rockefeller amongst those delegates that represented the South (virtually nill support), Midwest and Prairie West that would have kept him from attaining the necessary support to cross the threshold.
Edit: To be clear I thought that Rockefeller was presented as a.... clear favorite in the narrative. I still don't see a path for Rockefeller's nomination though.
Two, George Wallace never intended to start a Third Party when he was considering his Independent run in '64. Wallace and his cohorts intended to co-opt the Unpledged Electors movement that was gaining steam at the time, essentially a repeat of the Thurmond Campaign of '48. As an example, in '68 there were plenty of folks who tried to take out papers to run as American Independent candidates for various offices across the country, but Wallace himself made it abundantly clear that this should not be done and actively dissuaded as many as he could from doing so. His aims have always been within the Democratic Party, and it would amount to shooting himself in the foot to bolt considering he was at the time the political boss of the Democratic Party in Alabama. A Wallace-lead Conservative Third Party was simply never considered.
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Noted.
Hm, I'll look into that (happy to be provided resources if you've got them handy) and take a few days to reassess some things and edit the previous update to reflect this information.
Thanks for the information.
Well I've read "George Wallace", "Politics of Rage" and "Nixonland", and there are numerous articles in the NYT Archives. The extent of the campaign is talked about (here), and in many ways it can be seen as a weaker version of his '68 run. There is also the problem where sometimes a Third Party is simply started as a vehicle for an Independent Presidential campaign, just as the American Independent Party was for George Wallace and the National Unity Party was for John Anderson; this is more a fluke with balloting laws making it easier to seek the Presidency as the nominee of a "party" in many States.
This isn't to say that there wasn't a movement to establish some sort of Conservative Third Party (here), there certainly was an undercurrent that was present, born in the 60's and which continued thru the 70's into the Reagan years. The problem is that, while sympathetic to Wallace in many respects, many more embraced Goldwater, and that this feeling extended and divided even the Deep South ultimately crippled Wallace's efforts in '64.
He sure does.
Also apologies to all for the delay. Currently re-assessing some things in this timeline in light of new evidence.
**Author's Note: Changes to the previous chapter re: George Wallace**
AUTHOR'S NOTE:
I have edited the previous update to reflect the information shared by Ariosto. A new update will be posted over the next few days.
I have edited the previous update to reflect the information shared by Ariosto. A new update will be posted over the next few days.
The 3rd Kennedy Brother, an update on Vietnam, and the Broad River Bridge Incident
The 3rd Kennedy Brother
The name “Kennedy” had become synonymous with politics in the United States. President John F. Kennedy was a famous figure the world over, but his brother Bobby also managed to regularly grab headlines as an outspoken, hard charging Attorney General, crusading for civil rights and against crime.The 3rd Kennedy brother was largely an overlooked figure by comparison.
Senator Ted Kennedy’s late arrival to the Massachusetts Democratic state convention did little to change public opinion of him as a figure existing in the shadow of his older brothers.
Kennedy joked that “bad weather” on the flight over held him up. In truth, the plane was far closer to crashing than he let on.
The pilot, Edwin T. Zimny, pulled the aircraft up only seconds before what was to be a potentially fatal crash into the ground.
Thankfully, that crash was avoided, and everyone aboard lived to tell the tale.
Ted Kennedy career in the Senate would continue uninterrupted, but the chances of his name standing along those of his two brothers, at this stage, seemed remote.
Ground troops in Vietnam
On the 25th of June 1964, the first combat troops touched down in Vietnam.A force of 8,000 marines from the 3rd Marine Division arrived to guard American air fields and to assist in training and defending Strategic Hamlets
-- An excerpt of Kennedy’s speech announcing the deployment of US marines to South Vietnam, on June 23rd, 1964
Behind the scenes, Kennedy pushed back against his military advisors and decided not to immediately proceed with the mining of North Vietnamese ports – this would only be done, he said, in response to a major North Vietnamese offensive.
A few days later, President Kennedy announced his choice to replace Paul Nitze as Secretary of Defence – Kennedy wanted Clark Clifford in the role.
Clifford was a former senior advisor to Harry Truman, chair of the President's Intelligence Advisory Board, a true Washington insider, and someone well respected on defense matters.
The choice got broad support from the already relatively liberal Congress and was a sure thing.
Roswell Gilpatric, the Acting Secretary, would return to his previous role as Deputy Secretary of Defense.
The Vietnam War was well under way, and it would change Kennedy’s administration, and the world, in ways few could expect.
The Battle on Nam Dong
On the 4th of July, 1964, the Viet Cong (VC) and People's Army of Vietnam attacked the Nam Đông CIDG camp. The attack was designed to coincide with America’s 4th of July holiday.The camp, which housed 12 green berets, a battalion of marines and hundreds of ARVN/CIDG troops, was situated near the Laos border.
The base was a major thorn in the side of VC guerrillas, and the South Vietnamese and American governments recognized it as one of the most important bases on the battlefield.
Given its importance to the allied forces, a large force of over 1000 VC were sent to overrun it.
With the element of surprise on their side, VC forces managed to reach the outer perimeter of the base before being repelled.
With the aid of air strikes from A-1 Skyraiders. the VC were forced to flee, ending the battle.
Casualties on the allied side were 40 ARVN/CIDG troops, 3 American marines, and 1 green beret. North Vietnamese casualties were estimated to be over 100.
The battle was viewed as a success by the military and civilian leadership overseeing US involvement in Vietnam.
It validated their focus on US troops as a force multiplier and the benefits of training and arming the local population to defend themselves.
US Army Captain Roger H.C. Donlon would be the first American awarded the Medal of Honor for his efforts in killing two VC sappers, preventing the enemy from breaching the base.
This attack would be the first significant test of American forces in Vietnam, but it was far from the last.
The Broad River Bridge Incident
On July 11, 1964, a shooting occurred on the Georgia State Route 172 in Madison County, Georgia.Lemuel Penn, the Assistant Superintendent of Washington, D.C. public schools, a World War 2 veteran and military reservist was traveling home from his annual fishing trip in Fort Benning, Georgia. With him were two other black Army Reservists.
They were spotted by three members of the United Klans of America - James Lackey, Cecil Myers and Howard Sims – who saw them and planned to attack.
They approached in a Chevy II, armed with shotguns. It was their intention to drive up alongside the Penn's Chevrolet Biscayne and open fire, hoping to kill the Lieutenant Colonel.
However, the Chevy II passed over a pothole, jerking the back passenger Howard Sims around in his seat and causing his shotgun to go off.
The gun was pointed at the driver, Cecil Myers, and the resulting gunshot killed him instantly. The car then careened off the a Broad River bridge the men were driving on, killing them all.
Penn and his associates, wary of any potential threat against their life in the South, heard the gunshot and continued driving.
No connection would ever be made between the two groups, and it would be reported as some type of accident in the local newspaper.
The next update in the RNC! Feel free to let me know your predictions! Who will be the nominee? Goldwater? Rockefeller? Someone else entirely? What about running mates?
