He may, but that'd also disrupt the peace, which is something he'll want to avoid.
A Thorn In The Rose: A War Of The Roses TL
- Thread starter VVD0D95
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VVD0D95
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Would it though? Especially if Warwick and Salisbury are taking it nto their own hands
Chapter 12: Warwick
VVD0D95
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Chapter 12: Warwick
February, 1454
February, 1454
“We cannot simply allow Northumberland and his get, to get away with what they did.” Richard Neville, Earl of Warwick said. “We all know that that letter was forged by someone inside your household father, the time has come to resolve the matter.”
His father, the Earl of Salisbury nodded, but didn’t say anything, Richard knew his father was still trying to figure out who had sent that letter, and how they had managed to get it out without him knowing. Such a thing was no doubt embarrassing, but that couldn’t stop them from dealing with the Percies, that family was a threat to everything they had worked so hard for.
It was the Duke of York, Richard’s uncle who spoke. “Lord Egremont has been sent northwards, clearly the methods you chose to try and gather information scared him.”
Richard snorted. “Then he is a coward.”
“Did you actually intend to use the street to bring justice on Egremont?” York asked him.
Richard didn’t reply immediately, he had thought about it, had even discussed it with the Captain of his Household Guard, but had decided against it. But he hadn’t told his father or York about his thoughts on the matter, so was somewhat surprised that York knew about it. “I considered it.” He said simply. “And I may have instructed one or two of my men to let it slip in the ale houses where I knew Egremont and Northumberland’s men would hear it.”
“That was foolish of you.” Father said then.
“Why?” Richard asked. “Surely it was the right decision, let them think we’re doing something we were never going to do, so that they would do something first and give us cause to act.”
“It was foolish because it gave Northumberland a reason to send his son home. Somerset asked Northumberland where his son was during the last meeting of Parliament, and he told him he had sent the lad back home, Somerset understood what he meant by that. And you can be sure that Somerset has told the King.” Father replied.
“So, what?” Richard asked.
“So, what?” Father exclaimed looking at him in shock. “Do you not understand what this means? What message this sends to the King?”
“It shows him that we are taking action into our own hands unless he acts first. If he is half the man his father was he will take that message on and act. Isn’t that what you wanted, father?” Richard asked.
“Not like this.” Father said.
“Then like what?” Richard demanded.
“Through legal discussion communicated through the proper channels in Parliament. The King would have to have listened to our complaints in Parliament eventually.” Father said.
“Why?” Richard demanded. “What have you found?”
“Northumberland has been writing to Westmoreland, they’ve been discussing their grievances against us, and Northumberland has been encouraging Westmoreland to pursue his claims against me.” Father said.
“How do you know this?” Richard asked.
“I have a friend in Northumberland’s household.” York said then. “A man who worked for your grandfather and then went to Northumberland when the old man died.”
Richard found himself intrigued at that, York clearly had more insight than he had previously given him credit for. “And does this friend of yours have proof of this?”
“Yes.” York replied confidently.
“So, what do we do now?” Richard asked.
“Now, we must put pressure on Somerset and other members of the Court faction, we must ensure that the King knows that we are loyal to him but that we are not willing to let Somerset and his favourites disrupt things.” Father said.
“And how are we going to do that?” Richard asked.
“Well, first you are going to have to agree to secede your claim to Glamorgan.” York said.
Richard looked at York and wondered if the other man had gone mad. “You want me to do what?”
“You will need to secede your claim to Glamorgan to Somerset.” York repeated.
“Why?” Richard asked. “The Lordship is part of my wife’s inheritance.”
“It may be, but doing so will show the King that you are willing to work for the greater good. It will stop the chaos that has been present in Wales for the past year, and it will allow us to show the Court just what Somerset is.” York answered.
“What do you mean?” Richard asked.
“Somerset has made it clear throughout the case with you that he wishes to take a more active role as Lord of Glamorgan, if you secede your claim to him and he takes up that post, then we can see how he actually does as Lord of the area. If he is as bad as a Lord as he is as a Royal Councillor, then you can claim that you are the only one fit for the Lordship. The King will have no choice but to agree, and Somerset will be on the way to being discredited.” York said.
“Seems like an awful lot to do, to just discredit someone who has already been discredited enough.” Richard said.
“We have not forgotten his handling of France or anything else, but the King must be convinced.” Father said. “Convince the King of this and Somerset will never come back into favour.”
“How can you be so sure?” Richard asked.
Here, it was York who answered. “A member of the King’s council has told me that Somerset and the King are seeing eye to eye a lot less, especially as it appears that the King wishes to betroth his cousin Margaret Beaufort to my son, Edward.”
Richard’s eyes widened. “He wants to do that?”
“Yes.” York said.
“You don’t sound too happy about that.” Richard said.
“I am not, I think it is a dangerous move and may send the wrong sign, especially as the King’s moods are changeable. It would be better if the King betrothed Beaufort to Edmund.” York said.
“Will you tell him that when he suggests the betrothal to you?” Richard asked.
“If he does.” York answered. “He may change his mind and betroth the girl to Henry Beaufort.”
“We can’t have that.” Richard said. “Such a move would give the Beauforts even more power than they already have.”
“I know.” York said.
Richard sighed. “So, more waiting.”
His father laughed. “Do not look so despondent, Richard, good things come to those who wait.”
Finally, someone has the insight to suggest Edmund to Margaret (even if they didn't really do it atm) and who would said person be other than mah boy York
VVD0D95
Banned
Finally, someone has the insight to suggest Edmund to Margaret (even if they didn't really do it atm) and who would said person be other than mah boy York
Lol
Margaret to Edmund is the only good solution possible.Finally, someone has the insight to suggest Edmund to Margaret (even if they didn't really do it atm) and who would said person be other than mah boy York
And Warwick is way too much impulsive... York as a plan, instead, and looks to be a good one
The King is thinking to arrange a match between Margaret Beaufort and Edward of March. The father of the proposed groom, Richard of York (who had heard that rumor as no official proposal was done) think who would be better if the King married Margaret to his second son Edmund of Rutland.
Chapter 13: Margaret
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Chapter 13: Margaret
March, 1454
March, 1454
Margaret felt a buzz of excitement ripple through her. Her elder sister Agnes and her husband David had come to visit them at Blestoe Manor today. Agnes was Margaret’s favourite sibling; she was about six years older than Margaret and had gotten married last year. Agnes was considerate, thoughtful and always asked Margaret how she was and listened when Margaret replied, something that neither their mother nor their other siblings did.
Agnes was tall with darkish hair and blue eyes, she was a beauty, Margaret had heard their mother describe her as such, whilst their mother usually described Margaret as plain and sometimes when she’d been in her cups, as a horse. Agnes had never said such things to her and for that Margaret was grateful.
“What’s it like being married?” Margaret asked her sister then.
Agnes looked slightly surprised, her eyes widened a fraction before returning to normal. “It’s nice. David is nice and the estate is nice.”
“You do not miss home?” Margaret asked, whether she wanted her sister to give her an answer in the affirmative or not, she didn’t really know.
Agnes took her hand then and said. “I miss you, Margaret, that’s what I miss. You mentioned that you were worried in your last letter, why?”
Margaret shifted, she wished now that she hadn’t written that last sentence, she didn’t want Agnes to worry, because when Agnes worried she and Mother fought. “I…I didn’t mean to.”
“Margaret.” Agnes said sternly. “Why are you worried?”
Margaret looked down at their hands and whispered. “Mother wants to marry me off to someone.”
“Who?” Agnes asked, which forced Margaret to look at her.
“Edward March, the Duke of York’s son.” Margaret replied.
Agnes raised an eyebrow at her. “And this is not agreeable with you?”
“I…” Margaret stuttered. “I do not know. I was supposed to marry Edmund Tudor, but he died in France, and now Mother wants me to marry someone whose father is hostile to uncle Edmund and to the King.
“What do you mean?” Agnes asked.
“I overheard Mother and Lionel arguing about it. Lionel thinks the Duke of York is against the King and wants the throne.” Margaret said. “I don’t want to marry the son of a traitor!”
Agnes pulled Margaret into her then so that her head was resting on her elder sister’s chest, she felt Agnes stroke her hair then. “Margaret, you shouldn’t pay too much attention to what Lionel says. He’s an oaf and not a particularly smart one either. Mother knows what she’s doing, she wouldn’t want you to marry someone whose father was on the outs with the King.”
“But why does she want me to marry someone now?!” Margaret asked into her sister’s chest. “I don’t want to marry anyone just now.”
“Because that is what is needed to maintain our family’s position in the Kingdom.” Agnes said. “You are a wealthy girl, Margaret, and in order to ensure our family’s stability, you need to make a good marriage.”
“Even though I am not even twelve yet?” Margaret asked. “I cannot marry anyone before then.”
Agnes kissed the top of her head. “I know dear one, but Mother will arrange it so that you only marry March after you have turned twelve. And then there will be no consummation until you are ready in another two or so years.”
Margaret raised her head from her sister’s chest and looked at her, eyes wide with fright. “Consummation?!”
“Yes.” Agnes said. “Such a thing will be necessary to ensure that March’s father cannot then have the marriage annulled.”
Margaret had heard horror stories about consummation, it sounded disgusting. “Does it hurt?” She asked her sister then.
Agnes laughed. “It will at first, but after that, if your March knows what he is doing it will be fine.”
Margaret blushed. “Mother says that it will always hurt.”
Agnes frowned. “Mother is not always right you know.”
Margaret gasped, shocked, Agnes had never said that before. “Really?” Margaret asked.
Agnes laughed. “Really.”
“But then why does she act as if she always is?” Margaret asked.
“Because that is what Mothers do. They act as if they know everything and then act disappointed when you do not do what they want you to do.” Agnes replied.
“That sounds exhausting.” Margaret commented.
“It must be.” Agnes said.
“So, why does she continue to do it?” Margaret asked. “Surely it would be better for her to admit she does not know everything or that not everything she says is right?”
Agnes laughed. “She could, but then there would be no fun for her.”
Margaret raised an eyebrow. “What do you mean?”
“Mothers do well when they know that they can get you to change what you’re doing by acting disappointed and by pointing out they know everything. If they stop doing that, then what are they left with? The knowledge that they are only like the rest of us, mere mortals.” Agnes said.
Margaret laughed. “You don’t like Mother, do you?” Something had clearly happened between Agnes and Mother, otherwise she doubted Agnes would be saying these things.
Agnes sighed. “It’s not that I don’t like Mother, dear one, it’s more that I find some of what she does to be questionable, things that I once thought she could do no wrong in, I now think she does wrong in. Naturally that does not sit well with her.”
“Why?” Margaret asked.
“Because no Mother likes being told that she has done something wrong.” Agnes said.
“But…she says that we should always take criticism when it is warranted.” Margaret pointed out.
“Sometimes people say things and do not always heed them, Margaret.” Agnes said.
“But why?” Margaret asked confused.
“Because people are complicated and the way they teach us is not the way life is.” Agnes replied.
“That sounds horrible.” Margaret said. She could not imagine the knots people got themselves into trying to act one way whilst telling their children to act another way.
“It is.” Agnes agreed. “The sooner you realise that and chart your own course, the better.” Agnes said.
“Is that what you are doing?” Margaret asked her sister.
“Yes.” Agnes said.
“Then I will do it as well.” Margaret said grinning as Agnes laughed.
Chapter 14: Glamorgan
VVD0D95
Banned
Chapter 14: Glamorgan
March, 1454
March, 1454
“Thank you all for coming.” The King said, looking more confident than Edmund had seen him for some time. Edmund, Duke of Somerset looked around the small room that adjoined the King’s chamber, and noted that the Duke of Buckingham was the only person here who had no stake in what was likely to be discussed. Edmund did, Warwick did, and as consequence so did York. But York was here as a neutral advisor, supposedly.
“The dispute between Edmund and Richard has caused much trouble on the Marches.” The King said. “Richard has decided that he has a solution for this issue.” The King looked expectantly at Warwick and Edmund found himself wondering what game Warwick was playing.
“Thank you, Your Grace.” Warwick said. “Having considered the situation and in a desire to bring back some semblance of unity on the Marches, I have spoken with Your Grace’s Attorney General, and have agreed to secede my claim to the Lordship of Glamorgan to Lord Somerset.”
Edmund was surprised. He had thought that this would be about their dispute in the Midlands itself, not about the Marches. Edmund had long given up trying to get Glamorgan for his wife, but if Warwick was offering it, and offering it freely, then perhaps he should consider it. Though he was, of course, suspicious. “In return for what?” He found himself asking.
Warwick feigned insult. “Do you doubt my intentions, Lord Somerset?”
Edmund was in no mood to play about though. “Forgive me for not immediately jumping for joy when considering what you have just proposed. We both know that you would not have come to this decision without wanting or expecting something.”
Warwick shook his head. “You misunderstand me, Lord Somerset, and for that I can understand. I have not been the easiest of people to be around. But trust me, I wish only to end this feud between us, and you had mentioned before that you desired the Lordship of Glamorgan.”
I want the whole damned inheritance. Edmund thought to himself, he didn’t like how Warwick’s wife had gotten the whole thing despite being from the second marriage of her father, it was simply not right. “And you do not want anything in return?” Edmund asked cautiously.
“Nothing.” Warwick replied smiling.
Edmund looked at Warwick, truly looked at him, trying to see if there was any hint of a lie in the man’s face. He could find none. He looked at the King then and asked. “Your Grace is happy with this?”
The King nodded. “I am.”
Edmund took a breath, he still didn’t know whether to trust Warwick or not, but if the King was happy with it, then he had no real grounds to object. “Then I am happy.”
“Excellent.” The King replied, he clapped his hands and two servants appeared, they were carrying two pieces of paper. “Now, if you would affix your signatures to this document.”
Edmund looked at the paper that been placed in between him and Warwick, then at the King. He got the feeling that the King had already planned this, and that he and Warwick were merely here for show. If that was the case, then the King had clearly learned a thing or two. A quill was handed to each of them, and Edmund gestured for Warwick to go first. The man scribbled his signature in the appropriate place before pushing the document toward Edmund. Edmund took the paper and wrote out his signature slowly and properly as his father had taught him to, then when that was done he leant back in his chair.
The King smiled at both of them. “Now, there is this second document for us all to sign, to show that we were all present when this agreement was made.” A servant put the document before Warwick who signed it, then before Edmund who signed it, then Buckingham, then York and then finally the King. Once the King had signed it, he took a device from his right-hand side and pressed it onto the paper. “Good now it is officially recognised that Lord Somerset is Lord of Glamorgan.”
Edmund was still struck by how quickly this had happened, he glanced over at Warwick who had no expression on his face, then at York who looked as though he’d just been hit by something. Edmund was about to comment on that when the King spoke once more. “Now, gentlemen, that is all, you are free to go, apart from you Edmund, I’d like you to stay.” The others got up, bowed then walked out, Edmund remained seated.
The King looked at him and smiled, but didn’t mention what had just transpired instead he said. “I have reached a decision on who I want Margaret to marry.”
Edmund leaned forward then, Margaret was his niece, but she was also very wealthy thanks to what her father, Edmund’s brother had managed to garner through investments and land purchases. “Sire?” Edmund replied hoping to keep his voice neutral.
The King nodded. “I had originally considered marrying her to Edward, Earl of March, York’s son, but then decided against that. York is wealth enough as it is. And that would be no way to reward someone who has been as loyal to me as you have.”
Edmund raised an eyebrow, he got the feeling that the King was going to tell him what he had hoped for but he wasn’t sure. “Sire?”
“I have decided that Margaret will marry your son Henry, and that this marriage shall take place when the girl turns fourteen.” The King said. “Does that suit you?”
“It does, Sire. Thank you, Sire.” Edmund replied, with Henry marrying Margaret, they’d get her lands and become much wealthier, alongside the money from Glamorgan they’d be able to compete with York for influence in Parliament without having to rely on the Crown’s favour. Of course, they’d need to wait two years, but Edmund could do that. He would just need to neutralise York somehow.
The King smiled. “Good, that is all I wanted to hear. You are free to go.” Edmund rose, bowed, then straightened and walked out of the room. The moment he was out he punched the air in celebration. Finally, after all those years of hard work he was getting the rewards he had so long desired. He would need to ensure Warwick, Salisbury and York didn’t undo that.
Would both Edmunds (Beaufort/Plantagenet) not make a better match for Margaret? Surely Henry would realize that?
VVD0D95
Banned
No. Henry Beaufort is a better match for Margaret because he's the heir to the King's main advisor, but also because the Somersets aren't all that wealthy, and thus this marriage helps increase their wealth.
While Edmund's inheritance was quite poor, by this time things were beginning to look up for the Beauforts, with their net worth being ~3,000 pounds by this time, which translates to ~429,163 usd. It isn't as much money as York has, but it's enough to pass Henry over and Edmund needs financial security......
I could be wrong.
VVD0D95
Banned
I'm not so sure about that, I'd argue that Edmund could be wed elsewhere or enter the church if his father so desires.
Perfectly true, but would anyone as good as Margaret be in Edmund's league?
There's still John and Thomas to provide for, and I very much doubt that Somerset will send all his sons to church or wed elsewhere......not when Margaret's just over there and he could very well let go of all his worries for the future of one son. (Ok, maybe not all, but a major part)
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