a third superpower during the cold war

An Anglo French imperial block needs a pod prior to ww2.

You must remember that while USA was 'allied' to Britain and France in ww1 & ww2 there actions were very successful at breaking the western allies empires and long term strengths. If the avoid these actions you also avoid USA coming out of isolationism.

If the Anglo French blocks bounces Germany in ww2 and scares Japan off before a war they can maintain a block that is the main counter weight to the Soviet union. America though will probably maintain their isolationism and sponsor separatist and guerrillas in the other powers when and where they please.

WI about an earlier POD - the Soviets being greatly more successful in the Russian Civil War? The Soviets push deep into Eastern Europe and annex more places into the USSR (e.g. Poland, Romania, Hungary). The British and French panic, quickly allow Germany to revise the Versailles restrictions to re-arm and form an 'Ostwall' bulwark against the 'red contagion' spreading further west. (France may be more amenable to this if there is a domestic communist uprising that has to be crushed by the French Army). The British and French also pump support to Italy, Greece, Spanish generals, Yugoslavia, Czechia to clamp down on communism. Eventually, this all converges into a conservative, rabidly anti-communist Western European alliance bloc with a heavily militarised eastern border against the revolutionary Soviet Union. The USA doesn't want to get entangled in any of this and so withdraws back into isolationism, but is still loosely aligned with the Western European bloc due to anti-communism.
 
WI about an earlier POD - the Soviets being greatly more successful in the Russian Civil War? The Soviets push deep into Eastern Europe and annex more places into the USSR (e.g. Poland, Romania, Hungary). The British and French panic, quickly allow Germany to revise the Versailles restrictions to re-arm and form an 'Ostwall' bulwark against the 'red contagion' spreading further west. (France may be more amenable to this if there is a domestic communist uprising that has to be crushed by the French Army). The British and French also pump support to Italy, Greece, Spanish generals, Yugoslavia, Czechia to clamp down on communism. Eventually, this all converges into a conservative, rabidly anti-communist Western European alliance bloc with a heavily militarised eastern border against the revolutionary Soviet Union. The USA doesn't want to get entangled in any of this and so withdraws back into isolationism, but is still loosely aligned with the Western European bloc due to anti-communism.
It could happen I suppose.

But how do you get three blocks in the cold war if America is loosely aligned?
 
It could happen I suppose.

But how do you get three blocks in the cold war if America is loosely aligned?

That's a problem. Well the Western European anti-communist bloc is proto (if not outright) Fascist, so that could break the loose alignment with the US?
 
Why Japan would be on cold war against USA? You would need anyway very early POD keeping Japan strong enough that it could challenge USA or even China.

Japan had larger economy than the USSR by the 1980s. It was also larger than China's economy at the time. Why couldn't it be a superpower?

In OTL it didn't spend much on its military and was content to ally with the US. In the 1980s the US was upset it was spending so much on its military while Japan spent very little. If it had fallen out with the US or if the US withdrew from the East Asia region, Japan could step in to fill the void.
 
WI about an earlier POD - the Soviets being greatly more successful in the Russian Civil War? The Soviets push deep into Eastern Europe and annex more places into the USSR (e.g. Poland, Romania, Hungary). The British and French panic, quickly allow Germany to revise the Versailles restrictions to re-arm and form an 'Ostwall' bulwark against the 'red contagion' spreading further west. (France may be more amenable to this if there is a domestic communist uprising that has to be crushed by the French Army). The British and French also pump support to Italy, Greece, Spanish generals, Yugoslavia, Czechia to clamp down on communism. Eventually, this all converges into a conservative, rabidly anti-communist Western European alliance bloc with a heavily militarised eastern border against the revolutionary Soviet Union. The USA doesn't want to get entangled in any of this and so withdraws back into isolationism, but is still loosely aligned with the Western European bloc due to anti-communism.
What the hell is Czechia? There was not such country between world wars.
 
Japan had larger economy than the USSR by the 1980s. It was also larger than China's economy at the time. Why couldn't it be a superpower?

In OTL it didn't spend much on its military and was content to ally with the US. In the 1980s the US was upset it was spending so much on its military while Japan spent very little. If it had fallen out with the US or if the US withdrew from the East Asia region, Japan could step in to fill the void.


Not a chance. Asia hated Japan. If the US wasn't sitting on them, Asia would have ttacked

Japan's economy would have been a shambles if it spent 5% of GDP on military instead of the1% our time
 
Italy stays Neutral in 1940, and gets rich playing off Axis vs Allies, while making a Block with the Little Entente II: Electric Boogaloo, this time it the Italians leading Yugoslavia, Bulgaria and Romania rather than the Tripartite Pact in 1940.

Germans were very annoyed, But Count Ciano replied that Italy would hold to the Terms of the Pact of Steel and provide direct military assistance in June, 1942. But in the meantime would continue the trade, plus what the Little Entente could provide.

Japan doesn't care for this either, and takes it out on some of Italian advisors in China,

The Moose pledges support for Chiang Kai-shek, not that he could help, with Japan blocking everything.

So years pass, Italy stays neutral, Germany and Japan gets stomped.

Italy is the third way, the weakest of the Superpowers, their strident Anti-Communist message brings in Spain and China, that wins it's Civil War against Mao.
 
Why Japan would be on cold war against USA? You would need anyway very early POD keeping Japan strong enough that it could challenge USA or even China.

I imagine if we had forced the Japanese to overthrow their Emperor, the relationship could've started off very wrong, although I don't know how Japan would take to republicanism.
 
About the Franco-British Union apparently the British approved of the Union but the French were unsuccessful in gathering support.
 

Thomas1195

Banned
First, Britain adopting Keynesian economics during the interwar period and thus becoming more powerful than IOTL by 1939.

Well, have Britain being led by a pro-Europe party, and then steal the thunder from France and Germany to assume the leadership of EEC. And then Britain somehow links the EEC with its former White Dominions, creating a giant bloc excluding the US.
 
Arguably, this occurred; for the first half, the Brits were a Superpower and then later on passed the torch to the Chinese.

In the currency of Superpowers
1978
Country Warheads
USA 24,424
USSR 25,393
UK 350
France 235
China 220

UK was hardpressed with the Falklands, and China with Vietnam

Superpower?
Hmm.
 
In the currency of Superpowers
1978
Country Warheads
USA 24,424
USSR 25,393
UK 350
France 235
China 220

UK was hardpressed with the Falklands, and China with Vietnam

Superpower?
Hmm.

The USA has hardly walked away from its post WW2 conflicts with a favorable Win/Draw/Lose rate has it?

And China being hardpressed in Vietnam was in good company no?
 
The Falklands War went well for the UK, in contrast to China and especially the US in Vietnam. The Soviets also failed in Afghanistan.

I agree that it was too late for the British Empire to be a Cold War superpower without a much earlier POD (that might butterfly away WWII and the Cold War anyway), but that argument by marathag was not a convincing way to go about it.
 

Thomas1195

Banned
Before or after the Depression hits?
Either between 1921-1924 or after abandoning gold in 1931, but I prefer the former option, as it can set a good precedence for policy-making during the Great Depression: by 1929, Keynesianism would be no longer a really radical solution for Britain. Also, practicing Keynesian economics during the early- to mid-1920s would force Britain to peg its currency to Gold at a lower rate.
 
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