A surviving Mongol-Tatar state in Europe

Stronger Ottomans able to keep their Crimean vassals alive?

Probably this and a weaker Russia (Muscovy does not gain ascendancy that quickly, Russia develops as split principalities instead of one ascendant one as per oTL.

The Crimena Tartars lasted until Catherine the Great I think. Butterfly away a powerful, unified Russia and they last to the 19th century. Even in the 20th century they had a pretty unified ethnic identity (they threw their lot behind the Nazis) which makes me think they could have even been the a 20th century state if no superior power invaded them.
 
There is those buddhist mongols by the rough area of North Caucase or such, the Kalmouks, but this is maybe too far from what peoples think of Europe.. one wonder if those guys could have settled even farther west though...


Would a mixed turko-mongol-and those eastern smaller peoples related to finns and hungarians as mordvs-people count, in what is now Russia?
 
A mixed Magyar/Awar/Mongol Hungary would be interesting.

This is probably the more susceptible attempt (excluding the Avar part, that was particularly inexistant after the IXth), but butterflies there prevent to say anything safe past some centuries, not mentioning up to the XIXth.

You'd need to prevent Turkish rise in the Balkans (so probably a stronger Bulgaria, Byzantium being out) to ensure a strong enough Tataro-Hungarian entity; but as well the christianisation of the latter to ensure its long term existance in Europe.

Basically something looking, structurally speaking, as a mix between Poland and Don basin.

A good PoD would be Golden Horde holding firm on Hungary in the early XIIIth century, making it the center of an hegemon in Central and Balkanic Europe, and while weakening preventing its takeover by adopting more european features and being integrated into TTL "Concert of Nations".

Butterflies would be huge, not onlt in this region but in Europe as well (depending, among other things, of its impact on Germany). But it would be an interesting PoD.
It's certainly not impossible, at least.
 

PhilippeO

Banned
Originally Posted by The Ubergeek
There is those buddhist mongols by the rough area of North Caucase or such, the Kalmouks, but this is maybe too far from what peoples think of Europe.. one wonder if those guys could have settled even farther west though...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalmykia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalmyk_people#Life_In_Tsarist_Russia

Georgia absorbed by Tsarist Russia, but successfully become independent after USSR collapse. Kalmyk also absorbed by Tsarist Russia, and now Republic inside Russia. Can Soviet make Kalmykia independent S.S.R ? not part of Russia ? what is criteria Communist use to create S.S.R ? Europe could be very different if Communist decide to break apart Russia. Crimea, Tatarstan and Kalmykia could become independent Mongol-state.
 
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