A survival of more germanic kingdoms

Inspired by the recent Vandal: How could we allow for the survival of more germanic kingdoms, not just as political entities, but cultural ones too. You know still speak some Germanic language (east or west or north).
 
1. The Huns do not move West, as a result the Goths successfully establish a Ukrainian / Black sea Kingdom.

Without the Huns to cause so many deaths other East Germanic tribes are able to grow larger than in OTL, thus,

2. The Gepids and Burgunds establish Balkan Kingdoms.

3. The Vandals and Langobards move into Italy on schedule and establish Kingdoms.
 
1. The Huns do not move West, as a result the Goths successfully establish a Ukrainian / Black sea Kingdom.

Without the Huns to cause so many deaths other East Germanic tribes are able to grow larger than in OTL, thus,

2. The Gepids and Burgunds establish Balkan Kingdoms.

3. The Vandals and Langobards move into Italy on schedule and establish Kingdoms.
Interestingly, I was musing on this. Without the Huns the Germanic tribes more likely would be ending on establishig some of more stable kingdoms along Roman border or/and in Ukraina
 
...and if you're going to maintain the Gothic-Sarmatian kingdom and let it develop into a strong state and civilisation, then you could also let larger tribes and ethnic groups split up, or let smaller breakaway tribes establish new kingdoms and identities for themselves.

Smaller kingdoms in the Caucasus would be an option, or Eastgermanic colonisation of the Baltic lands.

And then you could also do a few interesting things with the smaller Eastgermanic peoples, such as the Rugians (let them settle in the Alps, for example) or the Peucini (who lived on and around a certain island in the lower Danube).
 
As a whole, yes. Though, if they only rule parts of Gaul... like the Burgundians in, well, Burgundy...

But, IIRC, the Burgundians became latinised eventually anyway... (the fact that they were closer to Italy may have contributed)...

Just how big was the population of Gaul at the time, anyway? :confused:
 
Could a Frankish kingdom that is limited only to northern France (and perhaps Belgium, The Netherlands and western Germany) work?
 
Could a Frankish kingdom that is limited only to northern France (and perhaps Belgium, The Netherlands and western Germany) work?

If you manage to keep the Goths in the Ukraine, then a stronger Roman Empire may restrict them to Austrasia... for a while at least.

Perhaps a surviving (post-Roman) Kingdom of Soissons? :confused:

A surviving Vandal Hispania would be interesting, but it would also become latinised eventually...
 

Susano

Banned
Could a Frankish kingdom that is limited only to northern France (and perhaps Belgium, The Netherlands and western Germany) work?

Heh, thats probably a better location than the Rhone Valley, yeah, because it would partly still be in Germania, so demographics would be in its favour.

Im not so sure nearness to Italy is a factor, though, seeing one of the last Germanic languages of the migration period to die out was Langobardic...
 
Heh, thats probably a better location than the Rhone Valley, yeah, because it would partly still be in Germania, so demographics would be in its favour.

Im not so sure nearness to Italy is a factor, though, seeing one of the last Germanic languages of the migration period to die out was Langobardic...

Well, the Lombards were one of the last Germanic tribes to migrate into the former Western Roman Empire... ;):D

At the invitation of the Byzantines, no less...
 
Maybe if the invading Germanic peoples were more brutal and killed more of the people already living in those areas, there would be less of a Romance-speaking population base to assimilate them. So if say the Ostrogoths killed more Italians, or the Franks killed more Gallo-Romans, they would comprise a larger population percentage than IOTL.
 
Maybe if the invading Germanic peoples were more brutal and killed more of the people already living in those areas, there would be less of a Romance-speaking population base to assimilate them. So if say the Ostrogoths killed more Italians, or the Franks killed more Gallo-Romans, they would comprise a larger population percentage than IOTL.

But there were millions of people living in Gaul and Italia at the time...

A lot more than there were of the Germanics, anyway...
 
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