A successful, but late, N-1 rocket

Re-usability is certainly nice, but "how" is the big question you run right back when you just completely assume it. There's a lot of ways to do it, many feasible at least for lower stages in the 60s and 70s, but it's another modification beyond the base N1.

Yes, for sure.

There's a few different ways to upgrade a rocket, but N-1 is limited on most of the standard ones. Stretching has already been discussed, and without that simple thrust improvements only offer gravity loss reduction instead of allowing a higher gross liftoff mass. Adding strap-on boosters is the second, and N-1's geometry makes that a little complex, as does its horizontal processing. The third big one is improved stages substituting into an existing vehicle, like Titan replacing Transtage with Centaur. The different diameters of the front and end of every stage on the N1 adds complexity to designing new stages to fit into the stack, and again the horizontal processing strikes. A fourth big one is cost reductions, like the reduced complexity of the J-2S compared to J-2--a change which eliminated a variety of subsidiary systems on the launcher--or changing production processes to minimize cost. N-1's launch site assembly meant it was going to be a bit of a pain to assemble no matter what, and the 30 engines leaves only so much room to improve and remove complexity without dramatic overhaul of the thrust structures.

In short, the N-1 really is a lot harder to uprate than the Saturn V.

That is very interesting...

What is the disadvantage of horizontal processing? Every time I've read about it before, it has been held up as being superior to the vertical processing the Americans tend to use. Were those opinions out of touch with reality in your view?

fasquardon
 
What is the disadvantage of horizontal processing? Every time I've read about it before, it has been held up as being superior to the vertical processing the Americans tend to use. Were those opinions out of touch with reality in your view?
It depends on the LV. Horizontal processing is good for low-infrastructure initial construction, but how easy it is to modify to support an evolving or variable stack depends on your transporter design--how is the rocket supported, how much space is there to move that support if the length changes, etc. SpaceX has had to dispose of two or three transporter/erectors as they moved among Falcon 9 variants, and FH will be different again. This is also an issue with strap-ons for N1, because of the brace designs for the N1 transporter/erector limiting gain in width around the base.
 
It depends on the LV. Horizontal processing is good for low-infrastructure initial construction, but how easy it is to modify to support an evolving or variable stack depends on your transporter design--how is the rocket supported, how much space is there to move that support if the length changes, etc. SpaceX has had to dispose of two or three transporter/erectors as they moved among Falcon 9 variants, and FH will be different again. This is also an issue with strap-ons for N1, because of the brace designs for the N1 transporter/erector limiting gain in width around the base.

Neat! I'd been wondering how easily the N-1 could accept boosters being added on.

It sounds like a major upgrade of the N-1 would actually be harder than building the Energia.

fasquardon
 
Reagan instantly cooled to the idea as Carl Sagan and his wife had three times refused invitations to dine with the Reagans at the White House.

So far i can remember the story have the Sagan's refused invitations,
after journalist publish a Government List of American People to be arrested and intern in prison camp in case of Conflict or War with USSR.
Carl Sagan was in Top 10 of this list label as "dangerous communist Sympathizer"

and It was Carl Sagan who advocate a Join US-USSR Mission to Mars, to over come there differences and put the Cold War behind them
While Reagan was talking of Destroying the Evil Soviet Empire and Strategic Defense Initiative in Space, what Carl Sagan consider as dangerous escalation of Cold War...
 

Archibald

Banned
According to Carl Sagan's official biography, Mikhail Gorbachev was interested in a joint manned mission to Mars with the U.S. in the late 1980s and started to propose it to Reagan during a summit meeting. Reagan was warm to the idea until Gorbachev mentioned Carl Sagan being a big supporter of it.

Yes, indeed, I've found a lot of stuff in on-line newspapers and I included that stuff in Explorers. It was between 1985 and 1988.

Here's one
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com...ion-of-mars-cooperation-in-space-soviet-union

And another
http://www.nytimes.com/1985/01/08/world/us-soviet-mission-in-space-is-sought.html

http://www.upi.com/Archives/1988/05/22/Joint-US-Soviet-Mars-flight-lauded-Analysis/7861580276800/

https://news.google.com/newspapers?...AAIBAJ&sjid=TDIHAAAAIBAJ&pg=868,2628390&hl=fr
 
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I forgot a detail on Reagan Mindset

He proposed a Soviet Join Venture to Gorbachev during summits.
To Fight together against "Aliens Threats" what include also SDI.
and that on several occasion with Soviet officials and at UN

I couldn't help but -- one point in our discussions privately with General Secretary Gorbachev -- when you stop to think that we're all God's children, wherever we may live in the world, I couldn't help but say to him, just think how easy his task and mine might be in these meetings that we held if suddenly there was a threat to this world from some other species, from another planet, outside in the universe. We'd forget all the little local differences that we have between our countries, and we would find out once and for all that we really are all human beings here on this Earth together. Well, I don't suppose we can wait for some alien race to come down and threaten us, but I think that between us we can bring about that realization.
Reagan Speech at UN 1987

It rise allot eyebrow in Politburo and Ministry in USSR
They believed either it was metaphor for Peace full coexistence or Reagan was simply had a mental derangement.
 
So far i can remember the story have the Sagan's refused invitations,
after journalist publish a Government List of American People to be arrested and intern in prison camp in case of Conflict or War with USSR.
Carl Sagan was in Top 10 of this list label as "dangerous communist Sympathizer"

...

I need some proof of that.
 

Archibald

Banned
The MKBS was a terrific space station project, complete with a nuclear reactor and an artificial gravity treadmill. It was in fact a close copy of Soviet nuclear-electric Mars spaceships.

Thanks to Concured for a very beautiful rending of that space station ! I've just added the Earth background. More pictures like this in my TL Explorers... later ;)

mkbs3_zps37cm38vx.jpg
 
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