What I was more rebutting is an idea of a highly organized killing that puts a real dent in the numbers of non-Germans. I said there would no doubt a pogrom here and there. However, death camp-style mass executions take time, money and organization.
A stab in the dark: The second German civil war
What I was more rebutting is an idea of a highly organized killing that puts a real dent in the numbers of non-Germans. I said there would no doubt a pogrom here and there. However, death camp-style mass executions take time, money and organization.
Deleted member 9338
This will have the the greatest sue of transplanting the Spain Civil War to the battle ground of the 30 Years War. You have my interest.
Ch 4: No Consensus
New York Times, March 13th 1935
“Whilst the situation unfolding in Germany is regrettable, there simply exist no opportunities to intervene that would not threaten peace in Europe. There is no international force large enough to curtail all the violence and any interventions on the part of Britain or her friends would do little but galvanize the madmen in Germany that we were out to deliver the death blow of a united Germany”.
Behind the appearance of sanity, realpolitik and logistics however, many suspect that it is not these concerns that are the most pressing but rather those of domestic politics: No sane political party in Europe would propose diving headfirst into another potential world war, even as more report of horrific German massacres like the Junta’s quashing of the Ruhr red army or the countless acts of barbarity perpetrated against foreign races in areas under the control of the Nazi party or their erstwhile comrades. Even as the Nazi government and the Junta begin tearing at each other’s throats their historical adversaries in Poland and France do little but watch for now.
[1] The Brauchitsch Government.
[2] Second Catholic League.
No Consensus
League of Nations assembly votes against intervention
In a display of a kind that we will likely see more of in the future, the League of Nations assembly voted 48 – 7 to intervene in the ongoing unrest in Germany. Amongst those few voting for were Belgium, Luxembourg and Denmark, all in close proximity to the unfolding violence and radicalism. Despite what the vote may indicate, the question of Germany has been the top item on the agenda near perpetually ever since the death Hitler and the alleged revolution instigated by his former loyal paramilitaries. At present it is still unclear what if any government is to be seen as the legitimate one, with Britain and her colonies presently appearing to put their weight behind the Junta[1], Communist Russia allegedly smuggling weapons to the reds in Bremen and Mussolini and his henchmen still unabashedly supporting the fascist forces[2] with the airmen and soldiers of Italy and Austria. The French have repeatedly called for a combined intervention and several times threatened to deploy troops to the Saar mandate to bolster the peacekeeping forces put in place there since 1934. When asked for a comment, a member of the British delegation gave the following answer:League of Nations assembly votes against intervention
“Whilst the situation unfolding in Germany is regrettable, there simply exist no opportunities to intervene that would not threaten peace in Europe. There is no international force large enough to curtail all the violence and any interventions on the part of Britain or her friends would do little but galvanize the madmen in Germany that we were out to deliver the death blow of a united Germany”.
Behind the appearance of sanity, realpolitik and logistics however, many suspect that it is not these concerns that are the most pressing but rather those of domestic politics: No sane political party in Europe would propose diving headfirst into another potential world war, even as more report of horrific German massacres like the Junta’s quashing of the Ruhr red army or the countless acts of barbarity perpetrated against foreign races in areas under the control of the Nazi party or their erstwhile comrades. Even as the Nazi government and the Junta begin tearing at each other’s throats their historical adversaries in Poland and France do little but watch for now.
[1] The Brauchitsch Government.
[2] Second Catholic League.
I wonder how long that will last. The idea of a 'Rhenish Republic' is surely going to gain more traction in Paris at some point.
FDRFan1943
Banned
What's are Goebbels and Himmler up to? What about Rudolph Hess? Rommel? Albert Speer?
Deleted member 9338
I am interested in what Poland will be doing considering the Soviet Union also has a horse in this race.
Ch: 5 The Art of Compromise
The Art of Compromise
The German Anarchy: part 1 by M Dorothea
By early 1936, the three major factions in the civil war had largely arrived at a standstill, save for the brutal crushing of the Bremen commune in late July of the previous year by the Wehrstaat. This sudden slowdown in military activity gave all sides room to maneuver and negotiate. This was primarily attempts to secure foreign support rather than trying to achieve a peaceful resolution to the civil war itself, though inter-factional deal-making was not entirely unheard of. The most significant of these was the effective alliance between Hess’ government and the Volksstaat.
The primary factor behind this was the large-scale defection of many traditionalists, aristocrats and other upper-class Germans to the side of the Wehrstaat for a variety of reasons. Amongst the primary ones were the association of the Nazi party with the SA and anticapitalistic Volksrepublik whilst the Wehrstaat looked increasingly like a return to the old pre-war order, or at least an autocratic approximation of it. It was perhaps somewhat of a self-fulfilling prophecy then that this exodus made the Nazi government take a more conciliatory approach to the Volksrepublik, particularly as it lacked the foreign support of other factions. In the end Strasser was allowed to run the Volksrepublik as his personal fiefdom in exchange for a cessation of hostilities and a combined front against the other factions.
On the opposite side, the Wehrstaat had little luck domestically beyond securing the allegiance of a number of catholic militias, but it was on the international front that they made a great diplomatic gain in the form of a secret agreement with the Soviet Union. This was primarily a result of realpolitik, as the Soviet Union had a vested interest in the defeat of the anti-slavic Nazi regime, along with the more short-term goal of putting pressure on Poland, which soviet dictator Genrikh Yagoda suspected would act more aggressively with Germany no longer being a threat as long as it was engaged in a civil war. Of course, ideological considerations still played a large role and Soviet support consisted of the shipping of raw materials rather than tanks or guns.
Meanwhile, the allies were still prevaricating: the Wehrstaat might be the most attractive option, but it was still a dictatorial and militarist regime that sought to rescind many of the terms imposed on Germany at Versaille. This last point was particularly important for France, which was not as willing to compromise with any German victor as much as Britain or the United States. In the end, the situation by December of 1936 would end up looking much like it had at the beginning of the year, albeit with the beginnings of the slow demise of the Party Government as the Wehrstaat, bolstered with soviet raw materials and with Italy’s attention directed in multiple directions, began an extensive offensive into party-held territory. It would be far from a quick demise however: like everything else during the anarchy, the demise of the Nazi Party would involve blood, death and the further descent of Germany and her people into the depths of depravity and barbarity.
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So it doesn't matter who wins. Either way, France will have to put up with a aggressive and probably revanchist Germany. The French government must be going nuts right now.
I think you mean 1936.
My guess is France and GB want an expensive victory for the Wehrstaat as the other two are even worse in their view. My guess is that they will help it by allowing at least limited trade with it while cutting the other two off from all trade. That could well be enough to tip the balance on its own. If they need more help they can always cut tariffs and sell them obsolete military equipment.
an OTL assassination attempt against stalin by the heiress of the russian Orlova-Pavlova family succeeds, partially because of butterflies and partially because of author preference/fitting the theme of "cult of personality dictator gets assassinated"
BigBlueBox
Banned
Since the Wehrstaat seems to be winning, realpolitik dictates that they should arm the Volksrepublik in order to maximize the length of the war and the German body count.
an OTL assassination attempt against stalin by the heiress of the russian Orlova-Pavlova family succeeds, partially because of butterflies and partially because of author preference/fitting the theme of "cult of personality dictator gets assassinated"
From what I know of him , he wouldn't likely be that huge an improvement over Stalin.
It doesn't seem to be winning by that much. They might do that if the Wherstaat starts winning overwhelmingly.
BigBlueBox
Banned
I think for France it would actually be best if the Volksrepublik won. Pretty much every victor of the war is likely to want a war against France eventually, but the Volksrepublik is the most likely to botch that war effort by alienating all potential allies and purging millions of its own people.
Ch 6: Popular Front
Chapter 6: Popular Front
"On the Brink: Europe after the Great Depression" by D. Harrison
Whilst the descent of Germany into civil war captivated the major powers of Europe during early 1936, another nation in Europe was slowly sliding towards an equally devastating conflict. Ever since the fall of the monarchy Spain had been a nation polarized: Left and right, stalinist and anarchist, spaniards and minorities. The vicious bloodshed of the German civil war had a surprisingly dramatic impact on tensions all across europe, especially in regards to domestic politics. Perhaps the uniquely fanatical nature of the different factions in Germany meant that some of the worst excesses like gas warfare would stay behind german borders, but the shocking images of destroyed towns, mass graves and ragged refugees still made even the most radical of ideologues pause and reflect.
These images have long been considered one of the turning points in public opinion all across europe and the eventual formation of the LoNMG, but it also likely played a vital role in the failure of a coup that would have radically shifted the balance of power amongst the ideological powers of Europe. In july of 1936, right-wing elements of the Spanish military initiated a coup against the republican popular-front government which managed to seize control over a sizeable area in northern spain, but did not succeed in toppling the government. In addition, the most combat-hardened troops of the rebel spanish armies were trapped in colonial morocco, first prevented from crossing by ships whose crew had mutinied in support of the republic and later the joint franco-british naval blockade.
Even so, this failed coup spurred the sitting popular-front government to initiate a widespread purge of right-wing elements and the banning of fascist political parties. Meanwhile, tensions skyrocketed inside the popular front, with some in the Spanish Communist party joining in with anarchists and independent communists in decrying the responsibility of the allegedly “weak” bourgeois government for not responding sooner to the threat, but with the government having just committed a large-scale crackdown against government opponents pragmatism won the day. Nevertheless the popular front soon dissolved without a far-right opposition to unite against and the left-wing infighting continued even as the nation slowly transformed itself into what would become the modern-day Iberian Federation.
When was the first Civil War
. Technically ww 1 since Frank's are Germans and Germans are Frank's seperate by earlier roman influence.. But curious as to first civil war