Descanse en paz Catherine, best of wives and best of women. This future is better than the one you had otl.
A Son of Aragon - Henry VIII's Catholic Heir
- Thread starter Direwolf22
- Start date
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- england henry 8th reformation tudor
With Scotland going reformist and England violently devout, with the Hapsburg bloc much stronger than OTL, I can see an English conquest of Scotland eventually staying put in this timeline.
I am actually hoping for 'Arthur, King of the Bretons' though. A religious civil war in France would be the right time to reassert control over formerly English parts of the old hexagon and Arthur might leverage the Tudors' Welsh heritage to have an easier time convincing the Bretons that they would have a high degree of autonomy if they sided with him and helped beat France.
I am actually hoping for 'Arthur, King of the Bretons' though. A religious civil war in France would be the right time to reassert control over formerly English parts of the old hexagon and Arthur might leverage the Tudors' Welsh heritage to have an easier time convincing the Bretons that they would have a high degree of autonomy if they sided with him and helped beat France.
I think all things will balane out at some time.
Britain going catholic, Germany being more catholic - maybe Calvinist France
I'd prefer an independent Scotland in this timeline and maybe even "Ireland for the Irish"
Yes it is. Though she is actually older than Catherine Howard was in OTL.
Not born
#12 Arthurian England 1554-1559
Now my little summer break is over its back to the action. Decided to skip the Ottoman update for now and focus on the events in England - we are now entering the time period of true excitement and deviation.
Arthur, son of Henry VIII and Catherine of Aragon, was crowned King of England, Ireland and France in 1554. He inherited the kingdom that Henry had built. England had seen decades of relative peace and growth. Its trade and economy had grown steadily and its people had avoided the violence that had plagued central Europe. Catholicism had remained the dominant religion in the country, embraced and protected by the majority of both nobility and commoners. The Church at home had been reformed and purged of corruption and excesses by the combined endeavours of Thomas Wolsey and Thomas More under Henry’s reign. This so-called ‘Humanist Catholicism’ had then spread and been copied in Denmark and Portugal. Protestantism however continued to grow like a weed in the country. London and the southeast, its urban and commercial networks, were breeding grounds for the Reformists. The English occupied territories in France too were a buzz with English, French, German and Dutch reformers whilst in the far north along the border with Protestant Scotland the Reformist faith was making deep inroads. What was clear was that religious division and perhaps conflict was coming to the British Isles sooner or later.
As king Arthur would seek to broadly follow his father’s policies. Encouragement of trade, specifically of wool, continued and Arthur enjoyed an amicable relationship with his distant cousin, Charles son of the Emperor Charles V who was serving as his father’s regent in Burgundy and the Netherlands. This allowed for a great deal of commercial trade and ties between the two. Combined with England’s favourable influence in the Baltic trade (as per Henry VIII’s agreements with the Danish king Christian II) these measures brought great wealth to England. This money and capital was used for various projects by King Arthur, such as: the renovation of monasteries and cathedrals, establishment of fortifications in the south and north as well as patronage of the arts - leading to more than a few comparisons to the mythical Arthurian Camelot. But the biggest benefactor of the new wealth was of course the navy. Arthur had long been impressed and interested in maritime affairs, and his declaration that “England’s future lies on the seas” became the motto of The Navy Council. The English fleet, a pet project of his father, would be expanded under Arthur. New warships, tactics and gunnery skills were all key pillars of the new Arthurian English navy. Lessons from the English intervention in the Danish Succession Crisis and periodic involvement with the Franco-Spanish wars were instrumental in this. Arthur was popular with the navy and its sailors and would write of his great pride for the service. The king was also greatly interested in the New World, having seen the great wealth it brought to Spain and Portugal and began laying plans for English expeditions to the west.
Arthur’s interest in the New World was heightened by his contact with his young nephew Henry, son of his sister Mary and Luis Avis of Portugal, younger brother of the Portuguese king. Henry and his mother visited England twice during Arthur’s reign in 1555 and 1558. Arthur was greatly impressed by the energetic and charismatic young man - who had succeeded his father as Duke of Beja in 1555. Henry had similar maritime enthusiasms and had seen first hand the results of Portugal’s American and African endeavours and the wealth that followed. Arthur wanted to establish England as an independent European great power a match for either France or Spain (though still friendly to the Habsburgs). To do this he maintained England’s alliances with Portugal (which he visited in 1557) and Denmark (through whom he was linked to by marriage to Dorothea, daughter of Christian II). Arthur was also aware of the need to maintain the stability in Ireland. Ireland had been (with Papal approval) raised to the rank of Kingdom in personal union with England - the two Catholic countries were linked and steady English investment and attention and the support of the local Irish nobility had resulted in a near unprecedented period of peace and mutual exchange between the two realms. Irish mercenaries (a way in part to provide an outlet for some of the more troublesome Irish) were sent to aid Spain in their conflict with France. The Earl of Sussex was serving as the Lord Deputy for Arthur in Ireland and was able to work with loyal and co-operative Irish families to put down the small intermittent revolts and in many ways Ireland was as secure as England by 1559.
There were however issues. Domestically the realm was becoming divided. On one side the established nobility (strongly Catholic) sought to maintain their positions. Leading this faction was Thomas Howard[1], the new 4th Duke of Norfolk. The Howards were a very powerful and influential family, the Duke’s sister had briefly been Queen of England after marrying Henry VIII towards the end of his reign. The Howards were loyal to King Arthur, over whom they had much influence but had still developed their own power base in the south and amongst the old nobility. Opposing them were the “new men” rising families and players who were riding the back of the new booming commercial order, families such as the Seymours and the Duke of Suffolk were part of this movement as well as also older noble families who opposed the Howards influence: such as Thomas Percy the new Earl of Northumberland [2] who had recently (secretly) converted to the Reformed faith after exposure to literature/agents from Scotland. In fact this movement was full of secret Reformers who wished to remove the influence of the Howards and convince the king to move towards the Reformed faith. These two factions continued to stare daggers at one another as tensions mounted within the country. This was compounded when King Arthur’s only child Anne died young leaving the king without an heir and a wife who seemed incapable of providing a lasting child. The Howards wish to move to replace the current queen with one of their own (who would be younger and more fertile) as the reformists sought to suggest Catherine Percy, sister of the Earl of Northumberland.
Beginning in 1559 Arthur began to show increasing signs of erratic behaviour and became more absent from governing affairs. In this relative power vacuum the factionalization of the country continued and schemes over the king’s marriage and succession intensified. This would all dramatically be rendered moot however. Whilst in his study in Westminster in August 1559 Arthur collapsed suddenly. By the time his servants rushed to his side it was too late, the king was dead. Theories of poison or ‘divine judgement’ were rife. Modern historians believe it was the result of his jousting accident a few years earlier when he had suffered a major blow to the head and temporarily lost consciousness. It is believed this had caused major brain damage which manifested in a sudden trauma in that fateful summer of 1559, this also further explains the king’s changing behaviour. The result was the same, the king was dead and he had no heir. Chaos gripped the country. There were two clear options now, and the Reformists acted first. Word was sent to the Protestant king of Scotland, Robert IV [3]. His father. James V, who he had succeeded in 1551, had married Princess Elizabeth Tudor - King Arthur's younger sister. He was invited to invade England and establish a Protestant dynastic union between the two countries. Messages flew immediately north and the Earl of Northumberland and the Duke of Suffolk began mobilizing. Threat of a Scottish move and the implementation of a Reformed Monarchy terrified the opposing side. The Howards and the Catholics made their move too. Recognising the threat they sent word to Lisbon to the king’s other sister. Though Mary’s health was declining due to what is now believed to have been ovarian cancer, her son, Henry, who had established his own relationships in England during his visits, was in the prime of health. He became the rallying point for the so-called Legitimists. And indeed there is some credible evidence that Arthur had planned to name Henry his heir in the event of a childless death. Henry wasted no time, and with the support of his mother and his cousin Manuel II of Portugal, he declared himself Henry IX of England and adopted the more politically astute family name of Avis-Tudor - the Howards, the Catholic nobility and Ireland rallied to his side. The War of the English Succession had begun.
[1] Not an OTL figure - an alternate son born instead of the OTL Henry son of Thomas Howard.
[2] Also a non OTL figure. Son of Henry Percy.
[3] James V had no surviving legitimate male heirs in OTL. Here he does through his marriage to Elizabeth youngest daughter of Henry VIII. He dies in 1551 due to fever. More on Scotland later.
Arthurian England (1554-1559)
Arthur, son of Henry VIII and Catherine of Aragon, was crowned King of England, Ireland and France in 1554. He inherited the kingdom that Henry had built. England had seen decades of relative peace and growth. Its trade and economy had grown steadily and its people had avoided the violence that had plagued central Europe. Catholicism had remained the dominant religion in the country, embraced and protected by the majority of both nobility and commoners. The Church at home had been reformed and purged of corruption and excesses by the combined endeavours of Thomas Wolsey and Thomas More under Henry’s reign. This so-called ‘Humanist Catholicism’ had then spread and been copied in Denmark and Portugal. Protestantism however continued to grow like a weed in the country. London and the southeast, its urban and commercial networks, were breeding grounds for the Reformists. The English occupied territories in France too were a buzz with English, French, German and Dutch reformers whilst in the far north along the border with Protestant Scotland the Reformist faith was making deep inroads. What was clear was that religious division and perhaps conflict was coming to the British Isles sooner or later.
As king Arthur would seek to broadly follow his father’s policies. Encouragement of trade, specifically of wool, continued and Arthur enjoyed an amicable relationship with his distant cousin, Charles son of the Emperor Charles V who was serving as his father’s regent in Burgundy and the Netherlands. This allowed for a great deal of commercial trade and ties between the two. Combined with England’s favourable influence in the Baltic trade (as per Henry VIII’s agreements with the Danish king Christian II) these measures brought great wealth to England. This money and capital was used for various projects by King Arthur, such as: the renovation of monasteries and cathedrals, establishment of fortifications in the south and north as well as patronage of the arts - leading to more than a few comparisons to the mythical Arthurian Camelot. But the biggest benefactor of the new wealth was of course the navy. Arthur had long been impressed and interested in maritime affairs, and his declaration that “England’s future lies on the seas” became the motto of The Navy Council. The English fleet, a pet project of his father, would be expanded under Arthur. New warships, tactics and gunnery skills were all key pillars of the new Arthurian English navy. Lessons from the English intervention in the Danish Succession Crisis and periodic involvement with the Franco-Spanish wars were instrumental in this. Arthur was popular with the navy and its sailors and would write of his great pride for the service. The king was also greatly interested in the New World, having seen the great wealth it brought to Spain and Portugal and began laying plans for English expeditions to the west.
Arthur’s interest in the New World was heightened by his contact with his young nephew Henry, son of his sister Mary and Luis Avis of Portugal, younger brother of the Portuguese king. Henry and his mother visited England twice during Arthur’s reign in 1555 and 1558. Arthur was greatly impressed by the energetic and charismatic young man - who had succeeded his father as Duke of Beja in 1555. Henry had similar maritime enthusiasms and had seen first hand the results of Portugal’s American and African endeavours and the wealth that followed. Arthur wanted to establish England as an independent European great power a match for either France or Spain (though still friendly to the Habsburgs). To do this he maintained England’s alliances with Portugal (which he visited in 1557) and Denmark (through whom he was linked to by marriage to Dorothea, daughter of Christian II). Arthur was also aware of the need to maintain the stability in Ireland. Ireland had been (with Papal approval) raised to the rank of Kingdom in personal union with England - the two Catholic countries were linked and steady English investment and attention and the support of the local Irish nobility had resulted in a near unprecedented period of peace and mutual exchange between the two realms. Irish mercenaries (a way in part to provide an outlet for some of the more troublesome Irish) were sent to aid Spain in their conflict with France. The Earl of Sussex was serving as the Lord Deputy for Arthur in Ireland and was able to work with loyal and co-operative Irish families to put down the small intermittent revolts and in many ways Ireland was as secure as England by 1559.
There were however issues. Domestically the realm was becoming divided. On one side the established nobility (strongly Catholic) sought to maintain their positions. Leading this faction was Thomas Howard[1], the new 4th Duke of Norfolk. The Howards were a very powerful and influential family, the Duke’s sister had briefly been Queen of England after marrying Henry VIII towards the end of his reign. The Howards were loyal to King Arthur, over whom they had much influence but had still developed their own power base in the south and amongst the old nobility. Opposing them were the “new men” rising families and players who were riding the back of the new booming commercial order, families such as the Seymours and the Duke of Suffolk were part of this movement as well as also older noble families who opposed the Howards influence: such as Thomas Percy the new Earl of Northumberland [2] who had recently (secretly) converted to the Reformed faith after exposure to literature/agents from Scotland. In fact this movement was full of secret Reformers who wished to remove the influence of the Howards and convince the king to move towards the Reformed faith. These two factions continued to stare daggers at one another as tensions mounted within the country. This was compounded when King Arthur’s only child Anne died young leaving the king without an heir and a wife who seemed incapable of providing a lasting child. The Howards wish to move to replace the current queen with one of their own (who would be younger and more fertile) as the reformists sought to suggest Catherine Percy, sister of the Earl of Northumberland.
Beginning in 1559 Arthur began to show increasing signs of erratic behaviour and became more absent from governing affairs. In this relative power vacuum the factionalization of the country continued and schemes over the king’s marriage and succession intensified. This would all dramatically be rendered moot however. Whilst in his study in Westminster in August 1559 Arthur collapsed suddenly. By the time his servants rushed to his side it was too late, the king was dead. Theories of poison or ‘divine judgement’ were rife. Modern historians believe it was the result of his jousting accident a few years earlier when he had suffered a major blow to the head and temporarily lost consciousness. It is believed this had caused major brain damage which manifested in a sudden trauma in that fateful summer of 1559, this also further explains the king’s changing behaviour. The result was the same, the king was dead and he had no heir. Chaos gripped the country. There were two clear options now, and the Reformists acted first. Word was sent to the Protestant king of Scotland, Robert IV [3]. His father. James V, who he had succeeded in 1551, had married Princess Elizabeth Tudor - King Arthur's younger sister. He was invited to invade England and establish a Protestant dynastic union between the two countries. Messages flew immediately north and the Earl of Northumberland and the Duke of Suffolk began mobilizing. Threat of a Scottish move and the implementation of a Reformed Monarchy terrified the opposing side. The Howards and the Catholics made their move too. Recognising the threat they sent word to Lisbon to the king’s other sister. Though Mary’s health was declining due to what is now believed to have been ovarian cancer, her son, Henry, who had established his own relationships in England during his visits, was in the prime of health. He became the rallying point for the so-called Legitimists. And indeed there is some credible evidence that Arthur had planned to name Henry his heir in the event of a childless death. Henry wasted no time, and with the support of his mother and his cousin Manuel II of Portugal, he declared himself Henry IX of England and adopted the more politically astute family name of Avis-Tudor - the Howards, the Catholic nobility and Ireland rallied to his side. The War of the English Succession had begun.
[1] Not an OTL figure - an alternate son born instead of the OTL Henry son of Thomas Howard.
[2] Also a non OTL figure. Son of Henry Percy.
[3] James V had no surviving legitimate male heirs in OTL. Here he does through his marriage to Elizabeth youngest daughter of Henry VIII. He dies in 1551 due to fever. More on Scotland later.
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And you would be absolutely right - I had meant to kill him off hold on let me edit
Aww I liked Arthur
Pretty much. Henry will ask for diplomatic recognition and support from Denmark - and obviously Christian would prefer a Catholic monarch in England. But yes time to "rebalance" the concessions.
It will certainly be interesting. Just takes the right person in the right place (or wrong person wrong place depending on your view) - couple of rogue pieces of literature and a few whispers and boom Protestant.
But it will certainly make an impact.
Thus ends the house of Tudor? Something of a pity, I had hoped for Arthur sneaking more Welsh influence into the kingdom.
In the long term, a Scottish success would probably be more beneficial in the long term. The isles are united but the forced conversion will probably fail, given how it is an external imposition as opposed to an internal change of heart. The shared faith and opposition to Scottish reformers will bind England and Ireland toghether, while Scotland initially being on top of the union would serve to at least delay any notion of separating again once there's a catholic monarch again.
However, the Avis-Tudor victory seems the more logical conclusion.
In the long term, a Scottish success would probably be more beneficial in the long term. The isles are united but the forced conversion will probably fail, given how it is an external imposition as opposed to an internal change of heart. The shared faith and opposition to Scottish reformers will bind England and Ireland toghether, while Scotland initially being on top of the union would serve to at least delay any notion of separating again once there's a catholic monarch again.
However, the Avis-Tudor victory seems the more logical conclusion.
There's still times for Wales to play a role yet. And nothing is yet a foregone conclusion.
You know I actually wonder if in a historical perspective if people would consider this the end of the Tudor dynasty. I mean at least with Henry there's a direct line of succession.
True but we could see a situation similar to Habsburg-Lorraine in OTL. Most people would consider the Habsburgs to have been ruling Austria(-Hungary) up until WWI though in truth it was the House of Lorraine that was the male line after the marriage of Francis and Maria.
So it is entirely possible for a Avis-Tudor (or Tudor-Avis) dynasty to be seen as an extension of the Tudor line rather than replacing it.
Assuming of course Henry wins - otherwise its a Stuart Britain.
I don’t think the Tudors themselves made a big deal out of being a Tudor “dynasty”- that’s more of a historiographical thing. After all, Henry VII’s claim through the Tudor line was, well, pants, and Henry VIII’s claim was arguably far stronger through his mother.